Munro predicts Ford will switch to NACS only (Tesla standard) based on their announcement from last week.

Some really interesting discussion in this video with reference to the architecture behind the charge port. TLDR there is no way they do two charge options side-by-side, future Ford vehicles will be 100% NACS. This surprised me!

They are guessing. Everybody is. Even Ford admitted they don't know what they will be doing.

There's nothing stopping them having NACS and CCS side by side. You don't have to have completely different cabling for each. They could be tied together right at the sockets, so your only extra cost would be space on the vehicle and the price of the "extra" socket.

Saying that, my hope is it's NACS going forward, and Ford provides a CCS to NACS adaptor as standard equipment, like Tesla does.

Pioneer74 said:

They are guessing. Everybody is. Even Ford admitted they don't know what they will be doing.

There's nothing stopping them having NACS and CCS side by side. You don't have to have completely different cabling for each. They could be tied together right at the sockets, so your only extra cost would be space on the vehicle and the price of the "extra" socket.

Saying that, my hope is it's NACS going forward, and Ford provides a CCS to NACS adaptor as standard equipment, like Tesla does.

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Agree with all you said - what will make this even more the right answer is when non-Tesla DCFC networks start adding NACS connectors as one of their options. I expect that to start happening anyway (think of it like EA's chargers with one CHADeMO cable and one CCS), but if other auto makers follow Ford and move to including NACS it will happen more quickly and comprehensively.

Pioneer74 said:

They could be tied together right at the sockets

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Ford could even make Sandy happy (maybe) and tie the two together on a common aluminum bus bar!

TheWoo said:

the right answer is when non-Tesla DCFC networks start adding NACS connectors as one of their options

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For the transition, I'd like to have both ports. Maybe as an option, so to speak, as Emma Bergg says Ford is studying their options.

Amps said:

Ford could even make Sandy happy (maybe) and tie the two together on a common aluminum bus bar!
For the transition, I'd like to have both ports. Maybe as an option, so to speak, as Emma Bergg says Ford is studying their options.

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It would be handy, but I'd bet against it just due to added cost and complexity. And, if NACS connectors end up being available pretty much everywhere, an adapter won't seem like a big lift for the times it isn't.

Happy to be proven wrong on them offering the connectors, as it's one less item to lose, but I'm not going to hold my breath!

Pioneer74 said:

They are guessing. Everybody is. Even Ford admitted they don't know what they will be doing.

There's nothing stopping them having NACS and CCS side by side. You don't have to have completely different cabling for each. They could be tied together right at the sockets, so your only extra cost would be space on the vehicle and the price of the "extra" socket.

Saying that, my hope is it's NACS going forward, and Ford provides a CCS to NACS adaptor as standard equipment, like Tesla does.

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yes, 100% agree they don't have any inside info...but I thought it was notable that folks who are so well-informed were so confident about the implications of the announcement's phrasing. I do think their comments that double-port interfaces are very unlikely for cost reasons are exactly right.

TheWoo said:

It would be handy, but I'd bet against it just due to added cost and complexity. And, if NACS connectors end up being available pretty much everywhere, an adapter won't seem like a big lift for the times it isn't.

Happy to be proven wrong on them offering the connectors, as it's one less item to lose, but I'm not going to hold my breath!

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I just don't want to have to replace my home EVSEs when we upgrade our cars, or deal with using an adapter every time plugging in at home.

Ah well - curse of being early adopters.

sotek2345 said:

I just don't want to have to replace my home EVSEs when we upgrade our cars, or deal with using an adapter every time plugging in at home.

Ah well - curse of being early adopters.

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Definitely a risk run buying early-model vehicles. Even moreso with EVs!

I'm hopeful that when Ford NACS vehicles come to market, there will be an easy cable swap or "permanent" adapter made available to those of us with Charge Station Pros.

$80K truck should have CCS behind current driver side charge door and NACS under future passenger side charge door. Economy work trucks should be able to choose which or both and pay accordingly.

I really don’t think any of CCS EV manufacturers are going to switch to NACS plugs. The main reason I think this is because the NACS is a weak design. The small NACS plug amplifies stresses on the port resulting in expensive broken ports.

To be fair, CCS ports also gets broken but the ports are much larger resulting in much lower stress from the same lateral force. The NACS port is what happens when you develop a charging connector without any feedback from industry. The CCS port may be ugly but it’s still a much stronger port compared to the NACS port.

Pioneer74 said:

They are guessing. Everybody is. Even Ford admitted they don't know what they will be doing.

There's nothing stopping them having NACS and CCS side by side. You don't have to have completely different cabling for each. They could be tied together right at the sockets, so your only extra cost would be space on the vehicle and the price of the "extra" socket.

Saying that, my hope is it's NACS going forward, and Ford provides a CCS to NACS adaptor as standard equipment, like Tesla does.

Click to expand...

They won't be putting both connectors in the vehicles - technically its possible but too big and clumsy. They will go with NACS and if you need to use CCS, you will need an adapter (which they may include with the vehicle). NACS is smaller and simpler. I expect most EV companies will switch over the next few years now that the wave is rolling.

TheWoo said:

when non-Tesla DCFC networks start adding NACS

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They already do in some places.

If they switched, does the NACS accommodate the H.I.S system needs?

I don't think anyone (even Ford) knows for sure what the long outcome will be. I'd bet that Tesla is hoping the long-term outcome will be the dominance of NACS as a de-facto standard.

The one thing that we do know for sure is that existing Ford EV owners will be able to get a NACS to CCS adapter and software updates that allow it to work with FordPass and Tesla Superchargers. Given the way NACS works, my guess is that this adapter will only work for DC fast charging at Supercharger stations. AC charging will be via the J1772 receptacle only (if you need to charge from a Tesla Level 2 EVSE, there are existing NACS to J1772 adapters for that).

If it is possible to make a NACS to CCS adapter, then it is also possible to build that adapter directly into the vehicle, wired in parallel with the existing CCS plug. If this is the case, it would have the same limitation (no support for NACS AC charging) as the adapter solution. I suspect purely from a we-need-to-get-this-out-the-door engineering perspective that this may be the initial solution. It'll mean a larger charge door (or as someone said, CCS on one side and NACS on the other), but it should be dead simple from an engineering perspective and relatively inexpensive.

It would only be a little more complicated to add a switch so that the NACS plug connects to either the J1772 AC lines or the CCS DC lines depending on what kind of charge the NACS charger is sending. This would allow the CCS and NACS plugs to be used interchangeably. If I were in charge of the program, this would be the initial solution that I aim for.

Long term is a bit more murky, and there are a couple of competing ideas:

• There is some push to have vehicle-to-grid capability for near-future EVs, and Ford has reported considerable interest in vehicle-to-home capabilities. Tthere are standards for this in the works on the CCS side, but I believe that Tesla lags on V2G and V2H capability (I don't know if this is because NACS makes it more difficult, or because Tesla would rather sell more PowerWalls). While Ford's current Whole Home Backup doesn't follow the CCS V2H standards, it is possible that future Ford EVs might retain the CCS plug so that they can provide V2H and V2G capability.
• On the other hand, if other EV makers (and EV charging providers) get on the NACS bandwagon, it is quite possible that NACS will become the de-facto North American standard -- and in this case, CCS might go the way of CHAdeMO and the dodo.

I am fine carrying a NACS adapter for my F150 Lightning. The ability to use CCS and Tesla Superchargers is a real competitive advantage. I am sure that buyers of NACS adapter Fords will be carrying CCS adapters as well. If we have a mix, and you can charge at any of them, that’s a real win.

Now, I just can’t wait to get my adapter. I will be watching the message center for updates.