5 BIG Issues With My Lightning - & They're ALL Related!

[Trucked Up EVs]

Now I’m confused. Is it a right to repair or cost of parts issue? As we ask for more complex features, blind spot detection, cross traffic detection, cameras, complex lightning, and more, these parts themselves will become more expensive as the complexity increases. Just the cost of modern features.

Our F150 taillights are cheap when compared to Porsche’s matrix headlights which can be as much as $8,000 on some models. That said, you can replace and program yourself with the right equipment. If I recall the taillight post, I think the bigger issue was water intrusion due to Fords poor quality control.

Both, actually, since one directly impacts the other.
Your example of all the parts and their complexity resulting in higher costs as consumers demand more is totally valid, but the fact that you can't service each of those individual parts because they are now 1) combined into one integrated assembly, and/or 2) software controlled and can't be easily independently installed. This is where the right to repair becomes problematic. Even though one part might be faulty, you'll have to replace several at the least because of how they are assembled. The word 'assembly replacement' has become synonymous with servicing most modern vehicles.
Are we okay with that?
Maybe. But it is worth the discussion.
Is this truly beneficial to the consumer over the long run, or mostly beneficial to the manufacturer, that isn't always readily willing for pass on those manufacturing cost savings?

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[chl]

Eventually, AI may take over much of the repair and maintenance work, and that could be good or bad or a little of both.

If the truck repair is mostly reprogramming modules with OTA distribution, and AI is writing the code (yes that is happening more and more), then repairs could be less costly in time and money.
Repair shops including those at dealerships may have less and less repair work to do.

Already EVs are less expensive to maintain.

And as EVs become more and more modular, physical repairs should follow that trend.

The Slate vehicle is geared towards the DIYer mods and repairs. The Aptera is very modular as well with a lot fewer parts than conventional vehicles. The Ford Universal EV Platform is headed in the same direction.

Some companies (NIO and AMple and Gogoro for example) have implemented battery swapping which can be done entirely through robotic drive-in facilities in a matter of minutes.

Repairs in the future could follow that same trajectory.

On the down side, to err is human but to really screw up you need a computer, so a lot could go wrong...but the trend is apparent and there is no stopping it.

 

[Trucked Up EVs]

Eventually, AI may take over much of the repair and maintenance work, and that could be good or bad or a little of both.

If the truck repair is mostly reprogramming modules with OTA distribution, and AI is writing the code (yes that is happening more and more), then repairs could be less costly in time and money.
Repair shops including those at dealerships may have less and less repair work to do.

Already EVs are less expensive to maintain.

And as EVs become more and more modular, physical repairs should follow that trend.

The Slate vehicle is geared towards the DIYer mods and repairs. The Aptera is very modular as well with a lot fewer parts than conventional vehicles. The Ford Universal EV Platform is headed in the same direction.

Some companies (NIO and AMple and Gogoro for example) have implemented battery swapping which can be done entirely through robotic drive-in facilities in a matter of minutes.

Repairs in the future could follow that same trajectory.

On the down side, to err is human but to really screw up you need a computer, so a lot could go wrong...but the trend is apparent and there is no stopping it.

What a great comment - a positive, intelligent, and humorous take on all of this. I think this is what we need: a discussion. How can this truly help the end user, both short and long term, and where are the pitfalls and choke points? You're right. It's coming, but we still have a voice in how that technology is implemented, and the power of that choice resides in our wallets.

Your focus on Slate and Aptera are wonderful DIY right-to-repair examples that also embrace modular simplicity. A lot of pickup truck owners will never embrace a vehicle they can't also fix. There are certainly examples of a smart, combined approach already. NIO is another great showcase of both.

I love your final comment on computers, and although not by definition the Luddite of old (I'm not throwing wrenches in 18th century textile machines), I am wary of the unchecked embrace of tech without weighing in the downsides for the owner.

Nuclear is very good AND nuclear is very bad.
AI is very good AND AI is very bad.
Simplifying manufacturing is very good AND...
Thanks for this!

 

[ClevelandBeemer]

1) combined into one integrated assembly, and/or 2) software controlled and can't be easily independently installed.

Are we okay with that?

This is just the nature of modern electronics/hardware design. Look at nearly every smartphone and laptop on the market. They all use SoC design where every component is on a single mainboard. This is not just for cost. This is often significantly more efficient as the pathways to memory and various co-processors are dramatically reduced. This leads to better performance and lower power use.

Separate/modular components are nice, but they also add bulk, cost, and can sometimes hurt performance and efficiency. What I can say for sure is we need to go away from having dozens of modules in vehicles. You have to remember those modules are made by different manufacturers with different QC standards and different supply chains. This also leads to increased cost of the vehicle as well as inefficiencies in production.

 

[mr.Magoo]

As I made perfectly clear in the video, this is not about EV trucks specifically, or the Ford Lightning exclusively

Boy did the headline of this thread have me fooled...

 

[chl]

This is just the nature of modern electronics/hardware design. Look at nearly every smartphone and laptop on the market. They all use SoC design where every component is on a single mainboard. This is not just for cost. This is often significantly more efficient as the pathways to memory and various co-processors are dramatically reduced. This leads to better performance and lower power use.

Separate/modular components are nice, but they also add bulk, cost, and can sometimes hurt performance and efficiency. What I can say for sure is we need to go away from having dozens of modules in vehicles. You have to remember those modules are made by different manufacturers with different QC standards and different supply chains. This also leads to increased cost of the vehicle as well as inefficiencies in production.

True, have a main board like a motherboard in a PC, but maybe also have plug in modules that can easily be replaced. Otherwise, when one component fails, the repair could be more expensive.

Modern HVAC systems have one main board that controls the whole system, but the board is generally not repaired on a component level, just replaced. There are pros and cons.

The pro is it's an easy, if sometimes pricey fix (the component price).

The big con is when a replacement board is no longer available.
That happened to my otherwise perfectly good hybrid heat-pump hot water heater, for example.

I think it has to be a mix for something as complex as an EV.

Sometimes having a certain degree of distributed control can be desirable.

When improvements are made in a component, say an electric drive motor, if there is some level of distributed control on-board the motor module, perhaps the main system control board does not have to be replaced to implement it.

Maybe just a software upgrade cannot implement the desired improvement.

There are always trade-offs in systems design, cost vs flexibility perhaps.

One reason I think the IBM PC model dominated the Apple model in the early days of personal computers was the flexibility, the ability for the user to upgrade individual components, like video cards, hard drives, etc., from a variety of sources.

Customization by the user was a big deal as the technology advanced.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

That guy hates Ford.

 

[Trucked Up EVs]

That guy hates Ford.

You mean the guy who's owned 3 F150 Lightnings, honestly celebrated them, covered them, used them as work trucks for his business, dedicated his channel to advancing the adoption of EV trucks worldwide, and thinks Ford blew it when they cancelled the Lightning?
That hater?
Are you that incompetent? I doubt it. You must have made a mistake...
Let's be clear: I love the product.
But yes, I am furious the idiot running the company into the ground caved and sold out.
I don't 'hate' anyone. Only trolls do that for attention and clicks.
Guess you like attention?
Are you a troll? Or can you have a respectful debate about the valid issues I raise, and a good, old-fashioned interaction about celebrating what is awesome about the Lightning and what sucks about modern consumerism that has rendered it obsolete?
Come on, Alfred! You can do better than stooping that low, can't you? Can't you do better than the lazy-boy-in-mommy's-basement-living-for-free response above?
Have a debate. Show everyone you actually have a brain. Don't lower yourself to the 'dark side' troll status by a one-line demonstration of stupidity.
Say something smart. So far, you're striking out badly.
Come on, Alfred. Impress everyone with your wit.
Because right now, you certainly haven't.

 

[Trucked Up EVs]

Boy did the headline of this thread have me fooled...

The headline is accurate. There have been 5 issues with my Lightning and all of them are related - that is 100% what I've experienced - AND they apply to almost every modern vehicle made, regardless of whether that product is gas, diesel, hybrid, or EV.

 

[Trucked Up EVs]

True, have a main board like a motherboard in a PC, but maybe also have plug in modules that can easily be replaced. Otherwise, when one component fails, the repair could be more expensive.

Modern HVAC systems have one main board that controls the whole system, but the board is generally not repaired on a component level, just replaced. There are pros and cons.

The pro is it's an easy, if sometimes pricey fix (the component price).

The big con is when a replacement board is no longer available.
That happened to my otherwise perfectly good hybrid heat-pump hot water heater, for example.

I think it has to be a mix for something as complex as an EV.

Sometimes having a certain degree of distributed control can be desirable.

When improvements are made in a component, say an electric drive motor, if there is some level of distributed control on-board the motor module, perhaps the main system control board does not have to be replaced to implement it.

Maybe just a software upgrade cannot implement the desired improvement.

There are always trade-offs in systems design, cost vs flexibility perhaps.

One reason I think the IBM PC model dominated the Apple model in the early days of personal computers was the flexibility, the ability for the user to upgrade individual components, like video cards, hard drives, etc., from a variety of sources.

Customization by the user was a big deal as the technology advanced.

Well said. I hadn't thought of the IBM analogy, but great example.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

You mean the guy who's owned 3 F150 Lightnings, honestly celebrated them, covered them, used them as work trucks for his business, dedicated his channel to advancing the adoption of EV trucks worldwide, and thinks Ford blew it when they cancelled the Lightning?
That hater?
Are you that incompetent? I doubt it. You must have made a mistake...
Let's be clear: I love the product.
But yes, I am furious the idiot running the company into the ground caved and sold out.
I don't 'hate' anyone. Only trolls do that for attention and clicks.
Guess you like attention?
Are you a troll? Or can you have a respectful debate about the valid issues I raise, and a good, old-fashioned interaction about celebrating what is awesome about the Lightning and what sucks about modern consumerism that has rendered it obsolete?
Come on, Alfred! You can do better than stooping that low, can't you? Can't you do better than the lazy-boy-in-mommy's-basement-living-for-free response above?
Have a debate. Show everyone you actually have a brain. Don't lower yourself to the 'dark side' troll status by a one-line demonstration of stupidity.
Say something smart. So far, you're striking out badly.
Come on, Alfred. Impress everyone with your wit.
Because right now, you certainly haven't.

 

[MountainAlive]

I haven’t seen this particular video yet but I’ve seen several other @Trucked Up EVs videos and I appreciate the coverage of the Lightning, critical or not. Usually the forum isn’t this cranky but maybe someone switched the office coffee to decaf and didn’t tell anyone. Personally I’m looking forward to the Lightning mods series Trucked Up EVs is working on.

 

[Heliian]

Maybe an electric truck or timber roads aren't for you.

Works fine for me, I do 100s of kilometers year on them.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

You mean the guy who's owned 3 F150 Lightnings, honestly celebrated them, covered them, used them as work trucks for his business, dedicated his channel to advancing the adoption of EV trucks worldwide, and thinks Ford blew it when they cancelled the Lightning?
That hater?
Are you that incompetent? I doubt it. You must have made a mistake...
Let's be clear: I love the product.
But yes, I am furious the idiot running the company into the ground caved and sold out.
I don't 'hate' anyone. Only trolls do that for attention and clicks.
Guess you like attention?
Are you a troll? Or can you have a respectful debate about the valid issues I raise, and a good, old-fashioned interaction about celebrating what is awesome about the Lightning and what sucks about modern consumerism that has rendered it obsolete?
Come on, Alfred! You can do better than stooping that low, can't you? Can't you do better than the lazy-boy-in-mommy's-basement-living-for-free response above?
Have a debate. Show everyone you actually have a brain. Don't lower yourself to the 'dark side' troll status by a one-line demonstration of stupidity.
Say something smart. So far, you're striking out badly.
Come on, Alfred. Impress everyone with your wit.
Because right now, you certainly haven't.

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