Lightning vs R1T - Timing and cost

[gombater]

All,
Have a reservation for a RiT and a Lightning. Both as speced are just under $80k [adventure vs Lariat extended battery]. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and specific use cases. I have driven in the R1T and was extremely impressed - 3.5 sec is real world. I have a situation where I need to make a decision. R1T is scheduled for delivery 4Q2022, but they do not appear to be hitting their quotas YTD so far, so this date may push out. Got my Wave 5 email yesterday, looks like approx 24 week leadtime.... so if I order the lightning, what's the likelihood the Ford tax credit is used up? Pretty much guaranteed to get for the Rivian. Ford seems to have the experience to meet their dates, any chance it could push out as well?

Ford dealer is promising no ADM, but will also not provide a purchase order draft [recommended by Ford] before placing order - guaranteeing they get the truck if I cancel. Not sure I trust them enough to not be greedy. Plus for Rivian - deliver to your door, no greedy dealers in the middle.

Curious to know forums thoughts on timing accuracy and how long the tax credit will last - through August?

Not really interested in saying which one is better - each is unique in it's own right and depends on your use case what is most important to you. I currently drive a F150 platinum which I love, but the suspension/acceleration on the R1T is impressive... Timing and cost may end up being my tie breakers...

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[jfried]

If you got a wave invite, I would be highly confident in you seeing your lightning this calendar year.

If you're scheduled for Q4 2022 with Rivian, I'd be less confident in that date.

If you were a previous "non-truck buyer", I'd probably lean more towards the Rivian (as IMO, I get the sense that the adventure package is more comparable to a Plat than a Lariat), but given that you are a current f150 owner, you may like having a full size box rather than whatever that tunnel-thing is called.

Ultimately, I'd probably order the Lightning, and maybe reconsider if/when your Rivian opportunity comes up.

That being said, I'd "challenge" the dealer with why they won't provide you with a purchase agreement prior to placing your order... simply ask them "what are they trying to hide?

 

[sotek2345]

You can always order the Lightning and not take delivery if you change you mind later, you aren't locked in to anything until you sign and drive it away.

 

[Arthur]

I would get the Lightning first as Rivian may miss their delivery target.

 

[RonTCat]

The Rivian is a great truck, but unless you have an extremely early Rivian reservation, it is almost a certainty you will get the Lightning first. It's a challenge in Normal, Ill right now

 

[EaglesPDX]

If your Rivian delivery date is the revised date they sent out then that is likely correct. If you ordered the F150 and Ford gave you the date then the 8/22 date is also likely correct.

I'd "order" the F150. Even though this is technically "non-refundable", demand is such that if you want out, the dealer will be more than happy to refund so they can resell. That happened to me on MachE when I wanted to switch to F150. Also given demand, you could likely resell and make money on it. We are seeing EV's in area getting marked up $5-$10k over list price.

On the EV tax credit, Ford will hit its quota Q3/22 and then it phases out per this schedule

• The full amount of the EV qualifying tax credit is in place DURING the entire calendar quarter in which 200,000 EVs are sold by a manufacturer, AND through the subsequent quarter.
• Then the tax credit amount is reduced by 50% for the next 2 quarters.
• The credit is reduced again to 25% of the original amount for the subsequent 2 quarters.
• At that point the credit expires completely.

 

[Tony Burgh]

NOTHING is certain. Keep all options open as long as financial costs nominal.

 

[gombater]

If your Rivian delivery date is the revised date they sent out then that is likely correct. If you ordered the F150 and Ford gave you the date then the 8/22 date is also likely correct.

I'd "order" the F150. Even though this is technically "non-refundable", demand is such that if you want out, the dealer will be more than happy to refund so they can resell. That happened to me on MachE when I wanted to switch to F150. Also given demand, you could likely resell and make money on it. We are seeing EV's in area getting marked up $5-$10k over list price.

On the EV tax credit, Ford will hit its quota Q3/22 and then it phases out per this schedule

• The full amount of the EV qualifying tax credit is in place DURING the entire calendar quarter in which 200,000 EVs are sold by a manufacturer, AND through the subsequent quarter.
• Then the tax credit amount is reduced by 50% for the next 2 quarters.
• The credit is reduced again to 25% of the original amount for the subsequent 2 quarters.
• At that point the credit expires completely.

Thanks for the details on the tax credit - very helpful. Ordered the R1T last October right after my first mile drive in Normal. My date is the revised one sent out end of year. The 24 weeks for the ford is what the config site is saying as of yesterday for a lariat extended range.

concerned I'll place an order and then I'll get the 'details' with an ADM added... dealer wins no matter what. But worst case, I cancel the order and wait for the Rivian.

Like the R1T - pros are a pretty nice interior, excellent suspension on my test drive, went over 1 foot diameter rocks at 30 mph and could not feel them at all. Cons are no homelink [literally have to use your garage door opener remote], no 360 deg camera view, shorter and shallower bed than F150, spare tire well and end gate hinge pockets look to fill up with gunk. Also no carplay, but not a huge issue to me. Forum reports would indicate very few deliveries to non-employees YTD, although seeing quite a few more on the roads now [3 in my hometown, 30 min away from factory].

Ford seems like they have their production act together, but no 'real world' reviews outside of Ford yet, and the dealer experience just looks non-value added in today's environment. I know this isn't a bronco, but wow a lot of negative press on order/delivery processes. Wondering if the Lightning will experience any of it. Was really interested in the home backup power concept until details came out on how much it will cost on the home side to implement... doesn't seem worth it anymore.

All this to say, for me and my use case, I am on the fence. Guess no risk to order the lariat and make a decision later. I'll probably wait until March 10 when Rivian next reports out then make a decision. Thanks to all for their input!

 

[RavenYZF-R6]

I would only add, tell the dealer if they won’t put in writing that they are selling at MSRP with no dealer add ons like nitrogen etc that you will move your order to another dealer which many have done before hitting submit online. There is no legit reason not to fill one out for you. Only makes sense if they want to chunk on ADM when it shows up.

 

[ExCivilian]

the dealer experience just looks non-value added in today's environment.

I'm not an apologist for the dealership model but the "value" will be more apparent if/when something goes wrong with the vehicle.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

All,
Have a reservation for a RiT and a Lightning. Both as speced are just under $80k [adventure vs Lariat extended battery]. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and specific use cases. I have driven in the R1T and was extremely impressed - 3.5 sec is real world. I have a situation where I need to make a decision. R1T is scheduled for delivery 4Q2022, but they do not appear to be hitting their quotas YTD so far, so this date may push out. Got my Wave 5 email yesterday, looks like approx 24 week leadtime.... so if I order the lightning, what's the likelihood the Ford tax credit is used up? Pretty much guaranteed to get for the Rivian. Ford seems to have the experience to meet their dates, any chance it could push out as well?

Ford dealer is promising no ADM, but will also not provide a purchase order draft [recommended by Ford] before placing order - guaranteeing they get the truck if I cancel. Not sure I trust them enough to not be greedy. Plus for Rivian - deliver to your door, no greedy dealers in the middle.

Curious to know forums thoughts on timing accuracy and how long the tax credit will last - through August?

Not really interested in saying which one is better - each is unique in it's own right and depends on your use case what is most important to you. I currently drive a F150 platinum which I love, but the suspension/acceleration on the R1T is impressive... Timing and cost may end up being my tie breakers...

What's worse? ADM from a dealer? Or Rivian adjusting the price themselves?

Personally, I just received an email from Rivian after holding a reservation for well over a year. They just adjusted the price of my truck due to inflation...by $19,000. I promptly cancelled order, I'll stick with my Ford Lightning.

 

[EaglesPDX]

They just adjusted the price of my truck due to inflation...by $19,000. I promptly cancelled order, I'll stick with my Ford Lightning.

Somewhat same boat but just made Rivian reservation a month ago. Basic Explore model no options was $67k and went to $82k with std features now options.

Or more correctly the base Model Explore was derated to dual motor, 275 mile range with just Silver as no cost option and switch to black vs. gray interior which now an option, same $67k price.

So likely $10k cheaper than F150 and 25 miles less range.

 

[vandy1981]

Haven't canceled the $1k yet as they may guarantee price of current reservation holders based on number of cancelations.

I'm taking the same approach with my reservation in the unlikely event they backtrack. If they don't backtrack, the $1,000 refund will come in handy for Line-X, wheel well liners, and a nice set of floor mats for my Lariat ER.

 

[FordLightningMan]

It doesn't look like Rivian is keeping the price for reservation holders. I hope I'm wrong for these poor people, but most articles I'm reading are showing the new prices are for existing reservation holders. This includes people who have day 1 reservations and are now seeing $12k-$17k increases after four years of waiting.

The only good news (I guess?) is people willing to pay more are moving up the list quickly. I've seen many people cancel their Rivian reservations on other forums. I am now even happier I cancelled my R1T when I found out i was in the Lightning queue.

 

[rodhx]

Color me impressed. Somehow Rivian found a way for me to actually consider a Lightning again. Just in time for Ford to disappoint me for the fifth time this Thursday.

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