My 16th Lightning Road Trip of More Than 1500 Miles

[RickLightning]

Assuming this mini rant was directed at least partially my way let me assure you that I would not expose you to either my complaining nor "bitching". You certainly would not enjoy it.

I am however perfectly happy to drop a little rain on the sunshine and rainbows expressed by the OP and anyone else asserting that things are just fine. The reality is that they aren't.

I think it's fair to assume that all those who participate on this forum could reasonably be classified as "enthusiasts". As such we are all more willing to tolerate friction than the gen pop. Some more so than others. I consider myself fully onboard with 3 EV in the garages yet due to the present limitations even I am balking. Just imagine then the immense resistance on the part of the average consumer who is either disinterested in the tech or worse, biased against. Espousing to this cohort a view that is in fact detached from the situation on the ground is not going to be helpful with adoption IMHO. The average auto owner is not looking for an adventure in travel. They just want to get where they are going. So do I.

It was not directed at any one person, more of a "well, what are you doing to change it"?

People complain about potholes (huge issue in Michigan). Every time I hear it, I say "what are you doing about it"? They stare at me. Then, I tell them of the phone numbers, website, and app that let you report potholes, and that at least in our county the responsiveness of the road commission to repair them. Two weeks ago I noticed a shoulder had a huge dropoff due to people not staying on the road. Reported it, they filled it in.

When we stay somewhere like a hotel that has EV charging, I make a point of telling the front desk to thank the owners. And, when they are broken, or iced, I do the same.

I note that we participants, every one of us, can only speak credibly about our personal position. None of us can credibly speak for the mythical "average auto owner". Same goes for the wider category of "average auto user" (because not every user is an owner). Ditto for the even more mythical "average consumer".

It's pretty clear to me after 4.5 years of EV ownership that the average person is clueless about EVs. We've talked to 100s of people at EV shows and events, and the questions you get are quite amazing sometimes. Now add in social media (like Facebook), where a good portion of the posts show the lack of knowledge, and many of them show a lack of intelligence and common sense. There are clearly people who should not own EVs, and many who shouldn't own any vehicle.

Right now the annual "what happened to my range" posts are thriving, with many noting how many miles they used to go miles. "I used 180 miles to drive 90 miles" or "My car thinks I drove 180 miles". That's followed by posts with people concerned about charging, or even driving, in the rain.

Education as to the possibilities is key. Sure, going to a remote national park is challenging. But telling the rangers there that you would have brought your EV if they had level 2 charging MIGHT make an impact. Communicating to the National Park Service the same helps. We planned a trip a few years ago to 8 national parks and drove through 10 states. Or was it 10 national parks in 8 states....? Anyway, at Grand Canyon National Park they had installed an EA fast charger right outside the park 2 weeks before we arrived. Inside the park, they had a few level 2 chargers. Figured no way we'd be able to use them, they'd be taken first thing. Nope - used them both days, charging for many hours each day. Or when we went to Vermont skiing. Charged at Tesla SuperCharger in Burlington because of the dearth of CCS chargers in the area. But, spring skiing, and we were able to park next to the gondola at Stowe AND use level 2 chargers. We made sure to communicate to Stowe that it was nice they were there.

We went 100% EV in December 2023, so about 2 years now. Haven't regretted it once. We have a trip planned to Calgary in 2026, and there are few chargers at the ski areas there. But, there are fast chargers, so it might be a little of driving 20 minutes to a charger to fill up, then head back, here and there. We plan on skiing 5 or 6 areas across 2 weeks (ski pass is 2 days per area), then drive to the next area, so charging would be limited to every 2 days likely. Interesting to plan, and hoping for more charging to be added before we go.

@Martin Rebuilds just posted on Facebook that he's done with long tows with the Lightning after 100,000 miles of Lightning driving and many, many tows. He's either going to switch to gas/diesel for the long tows, or maybe buy one of Chevy trucks. Of course while their batteries are larger, they also take longer to charge unless you find a station that can handle their higher charging speeds (Tesla can't). But he also did several years of this.

When our Mach-E's HVBJB failed on day 2 of the national park trip, it meant that 30 minute charging sessions turned into 90 minutes. That really pissed me off, because Ford engineers knew this (they had made the car go from inoperable to functional except for top of the power curve, but then limited DCFC to low 40kW) yet never conveyed that to owners. I wasted 14 hours across that trip fast charging not to mention the time on the phone to Ford's BEV group trying to get it repaired while trying to enjoy the Grand Canyon, and finally giving up and limping home. My tolerance is 3 to 4 fast charges per day, with an overnight hotel charge (or one last fast charge after dinner and beer).

I think it's great that we have these types of discussions, because it helps open people's eyes to the possibility.

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[EV Engineer]

It was not directed at any one person, more of a "well, what are you doing to change it"?



It's pretty clear to me after 4.5 years of EV ownership that the average person is clueless about EVs. We've talked to 100s of people at EV shows and events, and the questions you get are quite amazing sometimes. ""

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I agree with this completely. It's just a learning curve. Until you get one you just don't understand. Even myself. Perfect example is L2 at airports. What's the average time someone is parked at an airport? I imagine it's something like 72 hours. Why in the world would you need L2? Even for a inefficient truck or hummer you'd almost fill the battery with L1 and gain 150 miles. Seems like you could install 100 of these for about the same price as 20 level 2's.

I appreciate why the uptake to EV is slow. For most people it's one of their biggest financial decisions of at least a decade if not their entire life. Add in that its necessary transportation and I can appreciate the hesitancy.

I purchased a SR when I really was looking for an ER for about 4 months. I just got a screaming good deal and decided to potentially swallow the headache of less range.

After owning it 6 months it's apparent to me that for my use case the SR is more than enough. and the ER probably wouldn't have done much for me. And I suspect more than enough for 90% of truck owners. Some road trips we have to stop, but we'd have to stop anyways. So it's maybe 10 extra minutes of charging some kWH. And north of 600miles I'm probably considering an airplane or ICE anyways even with ER.

I'm not sure how automakers make the switch more frictionless. I think FORD free home charger was a great idea. I just think more charging stations is the next move. Not bigger batteries.

There's comfort in knowing you're always 35 miles from a fast charger.

It's getting there but I just don't think we are quite there. Another 24 months hopefully.

 

[RickLightning]

L2 at airports is for convenience, for PR for airport and city, to show sustainability (often solar or wind is involved), revenue, etc. Google an airport and EV charging and you will see various takes.

 

[PJnc284]

I'm not sure how automakers make the switch more frictionless. I think FORD free home charger was a great idea. I just think more charging stations is the next move. Not bigger batteries.

Need more butts in seats but that's not happening at the current price point. The steep depreciation is probably a positive in that regard once people get over degradation concerns.

Better trained salespeople will go a long way too. Making sure people are prepared and understand the nuances involved is key. Lost count of how many people I've run into while charging that had no idea what they were doing. Ran into an older couple who had just bought an EV6 earlier in the day and decided to take a trip. They only had a couple % and were trying to use a tesla supercharger. Had just finished charging so let them use my adapter. Kyle with out of spec ran into someone trying to use a chademo plug on a ccs car. Some part of that does fall on the prospective buyer for not doing their due diligence on such a large purchase but part of a salesperson's job should be to ensure it's a good fit.

And yeah larger batteries are just a bandaid for those willing to spend the money. Better efficiency and faster/more reliable charging is the way forward. I suspect the average ice owner is going to balk when you tell them that their 300mile+ ev really only gets 165 or so (80%-10%) when roadtripping so they'll need to stop every 2-2.5hrs and charge for 40min and that's assuming you don't have a heavy right foot and everything goes perfectly. Headwind, elevation changes, cold weather all mean you're going to be stopping more frequently and increasing your odds of a flakey charger or all being in use. Heck a tesla location only needs to be half full and you probably wont able to find a spot. Things have come a long way but still a lot of room for improvement.

 

[RickLightning]

Better trained salespeople will go a long way too. Making sure people are prepared and understand the nuances involved is key. Lost count of how many people I've run into while charging that had no idea what they were doing. Ran into an older couple who had just bought an EV6 earlier in the day and decided to take a trip. They only had a couple % and were trying to use a tesla supercharger. Had just finished charging so let them use my adapter. Kyle with out of spec ran into someone trying to use a chademo plug on a ccs car. Some part of that does fall on the prospective buyer for not doing their due diligence on such a large purchase but part of a salesperson's job should be to ensure it's a good fit.

You can't rely on a salesperson teaching you about all aspects of owing a vehicle. The % of people that buy a $50,000+ vehicle and never read the manual (gas or electric), yet read the manual for the $200 coffee maker they bought is huge. Some people shouldn't own EVs, some shouldn't own cars.

 

[Brons2]

I completely agree with you on this even with my extended range Lightning. More than an 80% charge distance and I'm definitely ICEing. The OP's generalization is certainly not true in all 50.

As an exercise I would challenge the OP to plan a trip from anywhere in Minneapolis to the Ash River Visitor Center, International Falls, MN at Voyageurs National Park. The ABRP route I just generated got me to the visitor center with 77% charge. But I had to cross the Canadian border to Fort Francis, Ontario to charge in order to be able to get back to the last DCFC on the iron range in Virginia, MN, 120 miles from the visitor center. This route is assuming the Lightining achieved an efficiency of 1.9 m/kWh which it certainly will not do in the next three months even without wind. And I sure wouldn't' care to be stranded in northern MN anytime in the next three months.

I spend a lot of time traveling about on a two wheeled vehicle with a similar range to the Lightning but it is of course ICE powered. I don't bother to plan anything with that no matter where I'm going. I just go. And I don't worry.

While my wife and I love all three of our EVs they are, at the end of the day, just a tool for transportation. Refueling our conveyance is NOT the adventure we're looking for. So we also maintain a Ford Expedition that sports a 700+ mile range when fully fueled. We can go to Ash River and back even at -20F without concern. Unfortunately I see that day for the EV's as a very long way off still.

I chose a specific trip that, here’s the important part, I actually want to do. And I was being generous. Voyageurs National Park is completely waterborne. Internal access is by boat, float plane or snowmobile if the water is hard. So you won’t find very many pickups around that visitor center that do not have a boat trailer tethered to the back. So now let’s go real world and connect my boat to the back of the Lightning so I can actually go fishing and camping. Efficiency just dropped to 1.1. On a good day. Driving 55 mph. Now that trip got REALLY hard. And you gotta get back.

I don’t have to go that far either. My grandkids live in Park Rapids , MN. No acceptable DCFC around there. So I get there and I can’t take the kiddos up to the headwaters of the Mississippi at Lake Itaska because I’ll never get back to a charger. (Of course I CAN drive up to Bemidji to charge. A 60 mile round trip in the wrong direction)

I have a friend who road tripped his Lightning through SD, WY, MT,ND earlier this year to see Yellowstone, Glacier and Banff. You know what his road trip report was about? Not sightseeing. Not food. Charging. That’s inverted IMHO.

With three EV in my garage I think it’s safe to say I’m what you would call “on board” eh? But apparently I live in the very unfortunate 5%.

There are lots of factors to consider on this exercise.

I tried this out on ABRP also going from MSP to Voyageurs, but using my standard range truck. It definitely involves some non-ideal charging stops but going to 100% at the Ford dealer gets me to Voyageurs with 40%, then you go back on a more direct south route to a charger in Bigfork, that is kind of slow at 59.2KW, but hey it's a charger. The point is that it is possible, if not ideal.

Keeping around an extra Expedition just to make road trips easier isn't an option for a lot of people. Besides the obvious financial expenditure with an additional vehicle and insurance and maintenance thereof, there is also the fact that I just don't have the driveway or garage space for it. Most people have to use the vehicles that they have, whether it's ideal or not. I'm happy for you that you have the resources and space to make this a possiblity for you.

It's back to the old argument then for people who can't have an extra vehicle lying around to increase convenience, do you optimize your vehicle for the 90% or the 10%? I know where I'm at with 2 EVs and no ICE.

I suppose there's also the point that I am never going to one of these forsaken cold places in the wintertime where it gets to -20F. So it does not matter to me how much the range in the truck is affected. If I go up there to International Falls, MN, it will be in June or July.

I do like to ski, and New Mexico is perfect for that, many afternoons you'll be skiing in a t-shirt.

 

[Brons2]

Not complaining. Again, I love my truck and I think anyone here is Pro EV.

Just offering a counterpoint to the OP who is suggesting the infrastructure and charge rates are not an issue. They are.

My state has 0 NEVI sites installed and no updates since August. I' m not going to hold my breath waiting on government bureaucracy to get us there.

Tesla, Buccee's, IONNA and other private industry players will do laps around NEVI.

These organizations are taking NEVI money. In Tesla's case, a lot of it. I'm perfectly fine with that, but, characterizing it as "doing laps around NEVI" is a misnomer.

 

[Brons2]

And yeah larger batteries are just a bandaid for those willing to spend the money.

Physically larger batteries are one thing, as seen in the Silverado.

But it's ok to admit that we all want better energy density in our batteries, and faster charging. These are things that are possible, and being worked on all over the world. And when produced at industrial scale, maybe even at cost parity.

 

[CavRider]

I note that we participants, every one of us, can only speak credibly about our personal position. None of us can credibly speak for the mythical "average auto owner". Same goes for the wider category of "average auto user" (because not every user is an owner). Ditto for the even more mythical "average consumer".

Hmmm, maybe. Maybe not. But I think we can all agree that, as it relates to the EV marketplace, we are not they. That was my point.

 

[PJnc284]

Physically larger batteries are one thing, as seen in the Silverado.

But it's ok to admit that we all want better energy density in our batteries, and faster charging. These are things that are possible, and being worked on all over the world. And when produced at industrial scale, maybe even at cost parity.

More energy dense solutions will certainly be nice but they all seem to have their own gotchas so doesn't seem to be one silver bullet. And who knows when ecactly they'll be available to the masses at an affordable cost. We all love our giant bricks here which seems to be a uniquely US problem. Charging frequently wouldn't matter as much if we had taycan level charging. Out of spec did a test that included an ice Honda civic along with a bunch of electric cars. The Taycan only finished 1-2 hours behind. The lucid was a 500 mile car but its charge curve held it back.

 

[CavRider]

There are lots of factors to consider on this exercise.

I tried this out on ABRP also going from MSP to Voyageurs, but using my standard range truck. It definitely involves some non-ideal charging stops but going to 100% at the Ford dealer gets me to Voyageurs with 40%, then you go back on a more direct south route to a charger in Bigfork, that is kind of slow at 59.2KW, but hey it's a charger. The point is that it is possible, if not ideal.

Keeping around an extra Expedition just to make road trips easier isn't an option for a lot of people. Besides the obvious financial expenditure with an additional vehicle and insurance and maintenance thereof, there is also the fact that I just don't have the driveway or garage space for it. Most people have to use the vehicles that they have, whether it's ideal or not. I'm happy for you that you have the resources and space to make this a possiblity for you.

It's back to the old argument then for people who can't have an extra vehicle lying around to increase convenience, do you optimize your vehicle for the 90% or the 10%? I know where I'm at with 2 EVs and no ICE.

I suppose there's also the point that I am never going to one of these forsaken cold places in the wintertime where it gets to -20F. So it does not matter to me how much the range in the truck is affected. If I go up there to International Falls, MN, it will be in June or July.

I do like to ski, and New Mexico is perfect for that, many afternoons you'll be skiing in a t-shirt.

I'm curious what efficiency factor you used for your trial here. My first post about this was just illustrative. If I can't pull the boat then I have no reason to go there. In that config i am hopefully going to achieve 1.1 mi/kWh but more likely 0.9-1.0. For now, this is an ICE only trip for me.

Nice find on the Bigfork charger! That one has been open only a little over a month. But a little digging produces this page which shows some very positive change coming for northern MN. Included there is a planned two stall, 100kW site in Park Rapids! That one will be a game changer for me. Wooooohooooooo! Happy to see it. No timetable for now though. We still need many more locations out there though. Many of these on this list are going in where chargers already exist.

Yes I realize I am fortunate to be able to own/house/maintain extra vehicles. If I couldn't then I would make the decision that the majority of pickup owners in MN make and own an ICE, not an EV. It's not strictly a matter of convenience for many (most?) While the trucks are on most days just oversized grocery getters a very large percentage of truck owners in MN also own boats. We are the "Land of 10,000 lakes" after all. It says so right on our license plates. Very, very few of these lakes are located along interstate highway corridors where most of the DCFC are for now.

My anecdotal observations tell me that people will not think about optimizing for their majority usage but rather plan for accommodating 100% of real or imagined usage. So for now, EV is just not a reasonable option. Unlike most of these peeps who have jobs and therefore limited free time on the weekends I am retired. But I'm also older and so my remaining hours are increasingly precious. So like all of them I do not plan to spend a single one of my remaining hours sitting in the back of an iron range Ford dealership reading the lettering on a dumpster while my truck charges to 100%. I'll take that time on the water in the boat thank you very much sir.

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