• Welcome to F150Lightningforum.com everyone!

    If you're joining us from F150gen14.com, then you may already have an account here!

    If you were registered on F150gen14.com as of April 16, 2022 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!

Sponsored

Portable EVSE Amps over 110v/120v

DiveMan911

Well-known member
First Name
R.J.
Joined
Feb 24, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
144
Reaction score
145
Location
Central Coast of CA
Vehicles
'06 Acura TL, '13 Ford Escape
No. Nothing about the circuit feeding the EVSE (breaker, wire size, receptacle, plug, etc) can limit the charge current. I don’t know if the Lightning limits 120V charging to 12A or not. It’s possible.
You didn’t mention make/model of your EVSE, so I can’t speculate on your last question.
I figured as much about the circuit, appreciate the confirmation. Per code, can a 16amp device/load utilize a 5-15 plug?

Curious if anyone else knows if the Lightning has a current limit at 120v?

Here’s the EVSE I bought: https://a.co/d/hX69FoF
Sponsored

 

FlasherZ

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
914
Reaction score
1,017
Location
St. Louis Metro
Vehicles
F-150 Lightning, Tesla Model X, F250 SD diesel 6.0
I figured as much about the circuit, appreciate the confirmation. Per code, can a 16amp device/load utilize a 5-15 plug?
Code doesn't specify NEMA receptacle types but says it must be listed & rated for the load served.

16A continuous x the 1.25 continuous load multipler = 20A, so 5-15 wouldn't be rated for the load served.

Curious if anyone else knows if the Lightning has a current limit at 120v?
If I get a chance tonight, I'll wire up a test harness and see what the truck thinks when I give it 120V with a 30A signal on J1772.
 
Last edited:

Maquis

Well-known member
First Name
Dave
Joined
May 20, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
2,869
Reaction score
3,476
Location
Illinois
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E E4-X; 2023 Lightning Lariat ER
I figured as much about the circuit, appreciate the confirmation. Per code, can a 16amp device/load utilize a 5-15 plug?

Curious if anyone else knows if the Lightning has a current limit at 120v?

Here’s the EVSE I bought: https://a.co/d/hX69FoF
The NEC generally doesn’t control what gets plugged in, only the premesis wiring. This EVSE isn’t UL listed and it’s likely they can’t get it allowing 16A on a 15A plug.

But I see where the seller claims that it will even allow a 24A charge at 120V, which could be desirable using a 30A RV receptacle, but I can’t see anyone doing that since 240V should be available at an RV park.

All signs are pointing to the likelihood that the truck software limits L1 charging to 12A, but I have no way to verify. Maybe someone with the right equipment can look for a 120V charge parameter in the software.

ETA: Flasher beat me to it, but essentially the same answer.
 

jefro

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
699
Reaction score
231
Location
Texas
Vehicles
F150, Corvette, Bolt EV,
There should have been a 20A plug on it.

Tesla's have or had a 16A charger. The charge rate is advertised by a dwell signal and the evse will say to truck that it can deliver 16A. Not sure if truck will read it at all to allow the very very slight improvement. I agree that 8 is half 16 but at 120VAC it will take forever.
 

mstuewe

Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2022
Threads
2
Messages
20
Reaction score
46
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Vehicles
F150 Lightning
FWIW, while waiting for my FCSP, I decided to conduct a home garage charge test last weekend using Ford’s portable EVSE.

Data readings were taken from the FordPass app, so, while not completely scientific, I feel this test provides no surprises and a reasonable expectation of home 120V charging based on these parameters:

Lariat ER @ 76% SoC, 20A@120V Garage outlet - direct plug-in; truck off with doors closed

76%-90%
in 24 hrs - 26 kWh added
Charge Rate: 1.083 kW/hr (26/24)​
76%-100% in 38 hr, 37 min (38.633 hrs) - 41 kWh added
Charge Rate: 1.061 kW/hr (41/38.633)​
The math says this isn’t sustainable without a more effective home charge solution….even a FCSP de-rated until @Ford Motor Company 🤥 can fix and deliver the EVSE they promised…..🤔

cc: @LightningMcQueenAlbany , @PV2EV

the problem with this is the amount of waste. I put my ford EVSE on a Killawatt and it was pulling 1300 watts. Thats 17% wasted.
 

Sponsored

FlasherZ

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
914
Reaction score
1,017
Location
St. Louis Metro
Vehicles
F-150 Lightning, Tesla Model X, F250 SD diesel 6.0
Here is your definitive answer: the truck will pull a maximum of 11 amps when connected to a 120V supply, no matter how much the EVSE advertises.

Note below the J1772 duty cycle is 65.5 pct (actually 65.6, but the car OBD output can only offer half-percent increments). That corresponds to 40A, which is the rating of the portable EVSE I'm using. I wired the 120V hot to a 14-50's A terminal and neutral to the 14-50's B terminal. You see the truck is only drawing 11 amps, single charger.

If I plug the same EVSE into a real 14-50 receptacle, the truck draws 40A.

So yes, it suffers from the same early code problem Tesla did, where it doesn't believe the EVSE if there is only 120V present.

Ford F-150 Lightning Portable EVSE Amps over 110v/120v Screenshot_20220830-150917_Torque
 

Maquis

Well-known member
First Name
Dave
Joined
May 20, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
2,869
Reaction score
3,476
Location
Illinois
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E E4-X; 2023 Lightning Lariat ER
Here is your definitive answer: the truck will pull a maximum of 11 amps when connected to a 120V supply, no matter how much the EVSE advertises.

Note below the J1772 duty cycle is 65.5 pct (actually 65.6, but the car OBD output can only offer half-percent increments). That corresponds to 40A, which is the rating of the portable EVSE I'm using. I wired the 120V hot to a 14-50's A terminal and neutral to the 14-50's B terminal. You see the truck is only drawing 11 amps, single charger.

If I plug the same EVSE into a real 14-50 receptacle, the truck draws 40A.

So yes, it suffers from the same early code problem Tesla did, where it doesn't believe the EVSE if there is only 120V present.

Screenshot_20220830-150917_Torque.jpg
A bit disappointing, but not unexpected.
 

FlasherZ

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
914
Reaction score
1,017
Location
St. Louis Metro
Vehicles
F-150 Lightning, Tesla Model X, F250 SD diesel 6.0
Let me clarify a bit... this is what happens if you advertise 30A or 40A to the truck. I don't have the right gear to easily advertise 24A or 16A to the truck, because my original Tesla gear was lost in an accident. It may allow higher current if you advertise 16A or 24A, but at 30A and higher, it stops at 11A.

Here is the FMC doing same thing BTW (note 49 pct duty cycle, 49 x 0.6A = 29.4A):
Ford F-150 Lightning Portable EVSE Amps over 110v/120v Screenshot_20220830-152729_Torque
 

Maquis

Well-known member
First Name
Dave
Joined
May 20, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
2,869
Reaction score
3,476
Location
Illinois
Vehicles
2021 Mach-E E4-X; 2023 Lightning Lariat ER
Let me clarify a bit... this is what happens if you advertise 30A or 40A to the truck. I don't have the right gear to easily advertise 24A or 16A to the truck, because my original Tesla gear was lost in an accident. It may allow higher current if you advertise 16A or 24A, but at 30A and higher, it stops at 11A.

Here is the FMC doing same thing BTW (note 49 pct duty cycle, 49 x 0.6A = 29.4A):
Screenshot_20220830-152729_Torque.jpg
Based on your findings, plus what @DiveMan911 experienced, it’s likely limited to 11A in all cases.
 

DiveMan911

Well-known member
First Name
R.J.
Joined
Feb 24, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
144
Reaction score
145
Location
Central Coast of CA
Vehicles
'06 Acura TL, '13 Ford Escape
Here is your definitive answer: the truck will pull a maximum of 11 amps when connected to a 120V supply, no matter how much the EVSE advertises.

Note below the J1772 duty cycle is 65.5 pct (actually 65.6, but the car OBD output can only offer half-percent increments). That corresponds to 40A, which is the rating of the portable EVSE I'm using. I wired the 120V hot to a 14-50's A terminal and neutral to the 14-50's B terminal. You see the truck is only drawing 11 amps, single charger.

If I plug the same EVSE into a real 14-50 receptacle, the truck draws 40A.

So yes, it suffers from the same early code problem Tesla did, where it doesn't believe the EVSE if there is only 120V present.

Screenshot_20220830-150917_Torque.jpg
Appreciate the follow through! Sure seems like that’s the case. Not the end of the world…I have my Ford charger scheduled to be installed next week at home…just capitalizing on some at work energy.
 

Sponsored

FlasherZ

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
914
Reaction score
1,017
Location
St. Louis Metro
Vehicles
F-150 Lightning, Tesla Model X, F250 SD diesel 6.0
Based on your findings, plus what @DiveMan911 experienced, it’s likely limited to 11A in all cases.
I think they're being quite literal with the J1772 spec on current. 120V isn't included in level 2, and the specification notes maximum 120V charging (level 1) at 12A or 16A, and looks like Ford just decided 11 was ok for everyone. Some manufacturers (including Tesla, in my experience) extended their support to pay attention to level 2 signals even when on 120V, but Ford has not.
 

Firestop

Well-known member
First Name
Firestop
Joined
May 6, 2022
Threads
13
Messages
1,031
Reaction score
994
Location
Oregon
Vehicles
2022 F-150 L Lariat ER; Honda Accord Touring
I think they're being quite literal with the J1772 spec on current. 120V isn't included in level 2, and the specification notes maximum 120V charging (level 1) at 12A or 16A, and looks like Ford just decided 11 was ok for everyone. Some manufacturers (including Tesla, in my experience) extended their support to pay attention to level 2 signals even when on 120V, but Ford has not.
Yes @FlasherZ , thank you for your follow up! @tommolog , can you address this in your next Lightning charge-related video?

Well, this is great to know and sucks…. @Ford Motor Company , I hope you’re listening …. hopefully a little flexibility can be added to 120V charging in a future OTA update. Also, this 11A limitation when charging at 120V should be noted in your documentation so us owners don’t have to go spelunking……..
 

rolker

Active member
First Name
Roland
Joined
May 26, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
31
Reaction score
41
Location
New Hampshire
Vehicles
2022 F150 Lightning Lariat ER
Occupation
Software Engineer
Let me clarify a bit... this is what happens if you advertise 30A or 40A to the truck. I don't have the right gear to easily advertise 24A or 16A to the truck, because my original Tesla gear was lost in an accident. It may allow higher current if you advertise 16A or 24A, but at 30A and higher, it stops at 11A.

Here is the FMC doing same thing BTW (note 49 pct duty cycle, 49 x 0.6A = 29.4A):
Screenshot_20220830-152729_Torque.jpg
Thanks for this info. I can confirm that the truck didn't ask for more than 11 amps from my OpenEVSE set to advertise 24 amps when plugged into a 120V 30A circuit.

This should be updatable via software if Ford decided so right?
 

FlasherZ

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
914
Reaction score
1,017
Location
St. Louis Metro
Vehicles
F-150 Lightning, Tesla Model X, F250 SD diesel 6.0
Thanks for this info. I can confirm that the truck didn't ask for more than 11 amps from my OpenEVSE set to advertise 24 amps when plugged into a 120V 30A circuit.

This should be updatable via software if Ford decided so right?
Tesla was able to do it by upgrading the firmware in the chargers - after enough people complained, engineering put together a fix and pushed it out. I'm assuming Ford (or its suppliers) can do the same - there's really no reason why it couldn't, because it already needs to listen to the J1772 signal for level 2, it's just a matter of extending that to level 1.
 

wighty

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
209
Reaction score
185
Location
NY
Vehicles
2022 Lightning XLT (SR 311A), 2023 Genesis GV60
I was operating under the same assumption as you, which is why I too wasinterested in buying it…..thx for sharing!!
Juice got back to me and seemed to confirm the booster 2 should be able to provide the 24 amps at 120v with the adapters (also said the US adapters should be available soon), so now just need to see if Ford updates the truck I guess.
Sponsored

 


 


Top