Powering a Home

[Gros Ventre]

Spoke with my dealer GM today. The Floating Neutral vs Bonded Neutral came up (eg he agreed to push Ford about it). He stated that Ford has said, to him, that they're working on it. Apparently Ford has gotten many requests to fix that. I noted that for his geographic area, there are many families that believe in being self-sufficient and that a true 7.2 kW generator would carry them through some nasty winter weather... I say true 7.2 kW generator since the engine power rating is much larger than the electrical power rating, so there's no loss of kW due to altitude effects on the engine.

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[watchdoc]

Install a Generac manual transfer switch critical loads panel that isolates ground and be done with it, the bonded ground is pretty standard with portable generators.

 

[Crilly]

I ran 4 wire to panel. Panel to house 3 wire, worked. Connected ground from plug to neutral. Worked great.

 

[broncoaz]

I ran 4 wire to panel. Panel to house 3 wire, worked. Connected ground from plug to neutral. Worked great.

So you ran the ground on the generator input plug on the house to the neutral and tricked the truck into not having the ground fault?

 

[Crilly]

That would be my quest.

 

[EZ Generator Switch]

I ran 4 wire to panel. Panel to house 3 wire, worked. Connected ground from plug to neutral. Worked great.

Just a FYI: Connecting ground to neutral in any other location other than the first means of disconnect ( your main panel) is a NEC code violation. Here's why...its a big safety issue, You created a new path for neutral to return to the source. Neutral can ONLY be bonded to ground at the service, in your case you just sent the unbalance of the load on a ground wire. Grounds are only for fault current.

 

[EZ Generator Switch]

Install a Generac manual transfer switch critical loads panel that isolates ground and be done with it, the bonded ground is pretty standard with portable generators.

No transfer switch isolates the ground. Neutrals and grounds are not the same thing. Some transfer switches have the ability to switch the neutrals for bonded neutral generators and to work with GFCI outlets.

 

[EZ Generator Switch]

Spoke with my dealer GM today. The Floating Neutral vs Bonded Neutral came up (eg he agreed to push Ford about it). He stated that Ford has said, to him, that they're working on it. Apparently Ford has gotten many requests to fix that. I noted that for his geographic area, there are many families that believe in being self-sufficient and that a true 7.2 kW generator would carry them through some nasty winter weather... I say true 7.2 kW generator since the engine power rating is much larger than the electrical power rating, so there's no loss of kW due to altitude effects on the engine.

Here is some info, maybe this will help. There are two types of generators or battery power systems made in the USA and Canada. Bonded neutrals and Floating neutrals systems. The catch is how they get connected and does that connection meet the NEC (national electrical code). Interaction with GFCI's require you "switch" the neutral away from the GFCI otherwise it will trip, every time., because it is already bonded. Floating neutral systems are just that "floating" they have no connection/bond with earth. NEC is very specific on how you connect each system.

 

[mmcguirk]

Here is some info, maybe this will help. There are two types of generators or battery power systems made in the USA and Canada. Bonded neutrals and Floating neutrals systems. The catch is how they get connected and does that connection meet the NEC (national electrical code). Interaction with GFCI's require you "switch" the neutral away from the GFCI otherwise it will trip, every time., because it is already bonded. Floating neutral systems are just that "floating" they have no connection/bond with earth. NEC is very specific on how you connect each system.

Kevin, I have a very hard time understanding all this bonded neutral / floating neutral / grounding stuff. I went to your website and was very impressed with the FAQ page. where you do a great job of making it understandable. Thank you.

So now I'm wondering whether your have a product that would work for my setup. If not, perhaps you could recommend something.

I power an 80A subpanel that serves about 12 "essential" circuits in the house. A mechanical interlock chooses the source to power the panel, either the grid via the main panel or a gas powered generator 20A at 240V. And, of course, I'm looking to use the truck instead of the generator.

I see lots of solutions on the web involving big panels sporting their own circuits but I already have a subpanel for that purpose and am thinking there ought to be a simpler solution than replacing what I've already got. Thanks for any help/suggestions.

 

[EZ Generator Switch]

Mike
So here is the big issue always >>> GFCI which is what monitors the output on the 150 will NOT allow anything downstream to be connected to neutral ( not ground just neutral & Hot) The GFCI basically monitors any type of leakage, be it on the neutral or hot leg. You will always need to switch the hot and the neutrals when using the 150. Our switch will do that for you . We manufacture a single circuit transfer switch (approved USA /Canada) The design intent was always what is the least expensive way to transfer a essential circuit??? A single circuit is the least expensive to manufacture, so if you need more than one circuit you need more than one switch, sorry.
But even using 2 or 3 units its less money and quicker to install. More questions just ask!

 

[mmcguirk]

So you don't make a "bigger" switch that would handle my setup?
Do you know of a switch that would and that doesn't also have a bunch of it's own circuits?
I understand if you don't want to address that second question.
Thanks Kevin @EZ Generator Switch

 

[adoublee]

So you don't make a "bigger" switch that would handle my setup?
Do you know of a switch that would and that doesn't also have a bunch of it's own circuits?
I understand if you don't want to address that second question.
Thanks Kevin @EZ Generator Switch

You can use a "standard" manual transfer switch cut in between the main panel and the subpanel. It should be 3 poles so that the neutral gets isolated along with the two phases. You could wire the truck connection to the "alternate source" input, or wire it to the panel with interlocking like you have for the generator and the transfer switch just become like a 3 pole on/off switch when nothing is connected to the alternate source input.

 

[mmcguirk]

You can use a "standard" manual transfer switch cut in between the main panel and the subpanel. It should be 3 poles so that the neutral gets isolated along with the two phases. You could wire the truck connection to the "alternate source" input, or wire it to the panel with interlocking like you have for the generator and the transfer switch just become like a 3 pole on/off switch when nothing is connected to the alternate source input.

Thanks, I think I understand what you are suggesting... in addition to the mechanical interlock that currently switches the source to the subpanel between power from the main panel and power from the generator, I would install a second manual transfer switch between the two panels that would also handle the neutral problem.

Would installing such a switch between the generator wall connector and the subpanel do the same thing?

Do you (please!) have a link to such a switch... again, one without all it's own circuits?
Thanks. /Mike

 

[PV2EV]

Would installing such a switch between the generator wall connector and the subpanel do the same thing?

This is exactly where/how you would install an MTS. You would ignore your interlock, as the breaker (typically 50A) that the 30A transfer switch is wired to acts as the interlock, and has to be shutoff when on gen/truck.

 

[EZ Generator Switch]

So you don't make a "bigger" switch that would handle my setup?
Do you know of a switch that would and that doesn't also have a bunch of it's own circuits?
I understand if you don't want to address that second question.
Thanks Kevin @EZ Generator Switch

No it's all good. You need a 3pole switch which would not be run of the mill, but certainly available, most are 2 pole. Stick with a company that has been in business like Siemens >>>> Remember don't let anyone sell you a switch without a center position OFF. You must have a label for approval and installation (like Intertek or UL). You ONLY need what the 150 is capable in putting out, if max out is 30 amps then thats what you need, bigger is OK, cost more but not needed. You will need to separate the loads you want to switch into a sub panel>>> AND that load should not exceed 80% of what is available. Again if its 30 amps your max load is 24 amps. Important question, who will be doing this?

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