Thoughts on the Charge Station Pro...

[FlasherZ]

I received my Charge Station Pro today. I had read about the challenges a lot of customers were having and I guess I'll have to go through them.

Just looking it over, I was unpleasanty surprised with the CSP and its build.

• For a high-current device expected to handle 20 kW, the physical device is CHEAPLY made. Everything is cheap plastic. At a minimum, I'd expect a metal baseplate to dissipate some of the heat and provide some support for heavy-duty wiring.
• By default the manufacturer expects you to use in-the-wall wiring from the back, coupled to the unit through a 2-gang switchbox behind the FCSP into a 4-hole cable gland in the unit for entry. For new construction where you can put the conduit and circuit in the wall, this is likely to be ok, but for my install (surface-mount onto an existing plywood wall) this means feeding from the back may not work. Which leads me to...
• If you DO use surface-mount conduit, there are no marked knockouts for entry into the chassis and you're expected to drill your own and use a Myers hub to attach the conduit to the unit. Definitely a cheap-out there. C'mon, Ford, you could have at least marked safe and proper locations for conduit entry into this thing and/or provided reinforced areas for conduit adapters.
• There is absolutely nowhere for the heat to go in this unit... it's going to be concentrated in the contactors and connectors.

I'm probably going to use a surface-mount 4" square box and conduit and use a 2x4 to set the FCSP off the wall - maybe this will give it some more airflow behind it too. I was missing some parts so installation will have to wait until I'm back on Saturday or Sunday.

No wonder this thing is having problems delivering 80A, there's absolutely nowhere for the heat to dissipate. The Tesla HPWC is 50x a better-engineered device.

Part deux, below:
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...s-on-the-charge-station-pro.11300/post-235089

Some observations on getting the FCSP linked to FordPass:
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...s-on-the-charge-station-pro.11300/post-235413
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...s-on-the-charge-station-pro.11300/post-235436

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[Firestop]

I received my Charge Station Pro today. I had read about the challenges a lot of customers were having and I guess I'll have to go through them.

Just looking it over, I was unpleasanty surprised with the CSP and its build.

• For a high-current device expected to handle 20 kW, the physical device is CHEAPLY made. Everything is cheap plastic. At a minimum, I'd expect a metal baseplate to dissipate some of the heat and provide some support for heavy-duty wiring.
• By default the manufacturer expects you to use in-the-wall wiring from the back, coupled to the unit through a 2-gang switchbox behind the FCSP into a 4-hole cable gland in the unit for entry. For new construction where you can put the conduit and circuit in the wall, this is likely to be ok, but for my install (surface-mount onto an existing plywood wall) this means feeding from the back may not work. Which leads me to...
• If you DO use surface-mount conduit, there are no marked knockouts for entry into the chassis and you're expected to drill your own and use a Myers hub to attach the conduit to the unit. Definitely a cheap-out there. C'mon, Ford, you could have at least marked safe and proper locations for conduit entry into this thing and/or provided reinforced areas for conduit adapters.
• There is absolutely nowhere for the heat to go in this unit... it's going to be concentrated in the contactors and connectors.

I'm probably going to use a surface-mount 4" square box and conduit and use a 2x4 to set the FCSP off the wall - maybe this will give it some more airflow behind it too. I was missing some parts so installation will have to wait until I'm back on Saturday or Sunday.

No wonder this thing is having problems delivering 80A, there's absolutely nowhere for the heat to dissipate. The Tesla HPWC is 50x a better-engineered device.

@Ford Motor Company ….are you listening….?

 

[F150ROD]

It’s like Ford didn’t even bother to take a look at what makes Tesla the best EV co. In the world. Simple things like this.

 

[Griddlez]

I agree with everything your saying there about the unit. It does feel pretty cheap - the only thing I thought felt sturdy was the cable itself and connector. That front panel? Dollar store grade, toy plastic.

I have a tiny bit of hope the unit is over reacting and it's not actually overheating per all the reports (it just thinks it is). Sounds like siemens is working on a software fix potentially. We'll find out soon enough I suppose.

 

[FlasherZ]

I have a tiny bit of hope the unit is over reacting and it's not actually overheating per all the reports (it just thinks it is). Sounds like siemens is working on a software fix potentially. We'll find out soon enough I suppose.

I'm hoping you're correct, as some people are mentioning failures even when ambient temperature is 70-80 degrees.

That said, I'm concerned the device says maximum ambient temp is 113 degrees. My garage is not air conditioned, and on the handful of 100 degree days we get a year, I'm sure the ambient temp of my garage in the afternoon comes really close.

They really should have a much wider range on the environmentals of this thing, maybe add a small fan for high temps... back to the original post - it's cheap and not well built.

 

[FlasherZ]

Alrighty, part deux!

This morning I installed my FCSP. And I probably should have anticipated it would be as bad as it was. Observation set #2 for @Ford Motor Company:

• I decided to surface-mount an electrical 4-inch square box and then use a 2x4 as a wall standoff for mounting lags as my installation type. I fed the 2 #3 conductors and #6 ground (didn't have #8 on hand, so I went a little bigger) through the cable gland. As I was tightening up the lugs, I could feel that they weren't too secure and I couldn't get them as tight as I would like for 3 AWG connections. It appears that they are just connected via aluminum to the contactors inside the unit, with no structural attachment to the unit. That's crazy! And WHY a 5/32 allen key for the lugs?! There are plenty of better options than aluminum allen key lugs!
• The rest of the install went with no issues, I connected the conductors, screwed the case on, and popped on the gray bezel - except it isn't very secure. Whenever you insert the CCS connector into the holder in the face of the chassis, the gray bezel pops loose and falls onto the cord. Why that bezel couldn't have had 3 screws to hold it on is beyond me - it's cheap.
• I turned on the power and allowed the unit to go through its boot cycle while I downloaded the FCSP setup app and installed it. Then I started going through the steps. I found the station's broadcasted wireless network and connected to it after entering the password, and the app found it. The FCSP found my home network (the access point is directly across the garage), and it threw an error saying "couldn't connect". But then when I clicked "try again", it said "successfully connected". So no idea what happened there - but it's not intuitive at all and the whole setup process was designed by an engineer without an ounce of user experience training.
• Then the app asked me to connect the FCSP to FordPass. It opened up the FordPass application with the station name and password all filled in for me. But when I clicked "next", the FordPass app responded "Chargepoint not found!" and after a few retries, it said "too many requests, try again in 15 minutes". I rebooted my phone, closed all the apps, and tried again 15 minutes later, only for it to tell me the same thing - "Chargepoint not found!" No documentation covers this error case - in fact, Google can't even find this error - so I'm kinda stuck here.
• I started charging the truck for the first time. Using my OBD2 scanner app, I could see the truck was drawing 16.8 kW - that's not the 19.2 kW I expected to see, so I have no idea why it refuses to charge at the full 80 amps. Since I know my truck will charge at the full 80 amps from my Tesla HPWC gen2 plus Teslatap, it appears to be something with the FCSP. OBD2 tells me that the FCSP is offering a J1772 pilot duty cycle of only 94.5%, which means it's only advertising 76 amps to the truck and not 80.
• After 20 minutes or so, I got the dreaded amber LED of doom and the FCSP stopped charging. Using my thermometer, I observed that the FCSP had reached 123 degrees F in an ambient garage temperature of 97 degrees (air temp outside 98). Equipment in a garage is supposed to be able to tolerate that level of heat - I have no idea why it's so sensitive.

Ford, this FCSP is a complete pile of garbage. I usually reserve very strong opinions like that, but I feel confident in saying that this is absolutely, positively horrible.

If someone asked me today whether they should buy a Charge Station Pro, I'd tell them to buy a third party EVSE. At this point I'm even considering ripping it out and replacing it with another used Tesla gen 2 HPWC and Teslatap.

 

[RainorshinePNW]

"Then the app asked me to connect the FCSP to FordPass. It opened up the FordPass application with the station name and password all filled in for me. But when I clicked "next", the FordPass app responded "Chargepoint not found!" and after a few retries, it said "too many requests, try again in 15 minutes". I rebooted my phone, closed all the apps, and tried again 15 minutes later, only for it to tell me the same thing - "Chargepoint not found!" No documentation covers this error case - in fact, Google can't even find this error - so I'm kinda stuck here."

This happened to me too for a few days, kept trying, eventually it succeeded in connecting.

Thanks for your thoughts/data, particularly on the temp while charging. I get the overheated error at anything higher than 60 amps (set via software in the app) and our ambient temps haven't exceeded 90.

 

[PiMatrix]

Alrighty, part deux!

This morning I installed my FCSP. And I probably should have anticipated it would be as bad as it was. Observation set #2 for @Ford Motor Company:

• I decided to surface-mount an electrical 4-inch square box and then use a 2x4 as a wall standoff for mounting lags as my installation type. I fed the 2 #3 conductors and #6 ground (didn't have #8 on hand, so I went a little bigger) through the cable gland. As I was tightening up the lugs, I could feel that they weren't too secure and I couldn't get them as tight as I would like for 3 AWG connections. It appears that they are just connected via aluminum to the contactors inside the unit, with no structural attachment to the unit. That's crazy! And WHY a 5/32 allen key for the lugs?! There are plenty of better options than aluminum allen key lugs!
• The rest of the install went with no issues, I connected the conductors, screwed the case on, and popped on the gray bezel - except it isn't very secure. Whenever you insert the CCS connector into the holder in the face of the chassis, the gray bezel pops loose and falls onto the cord. Why that bezel couldn't have had 3 screws to hold it on is beyond me - it's cheap.
• I turned on the power and allowed the unit to go through its boot cycle while I downloaded the FCSP setup app and installed it. Then I started going through the steps. I found the station's broadcasted wireless network and connected to it after entering the password, and the app found it. The FCSP found my home network (the access point is directly across the garage), and it threw an error saying "couldn't connect". But then when I clicked "try again", it said "successfully connected". So no idea what happened there - but it's not intuitive at all and the whole setup process was designed by an engineer without an ounce of user experience training.
• Then the app asked me to connect the FCSP to FordPass. It opened up the FordPass application with the station name and password all filled in for me. But when I clicked "next", the FordPass app responded "Chargepoint not found!" and after a few retries, it said "too many requests, try again in 15 minutes". I rebooted my phone, closed all the apps, and tried again 15 minutes later, only for it to tell me the same thing - "Chargepoint not found!" No documentation covers this error case - in fact, Google can't even find this error - so I'm kinda stuck here.
• I started charging the truck for the first time. Using my OBD2 scanner app, I could see the truck was drawing 16.8 kW - that's not the 19.2 kW I expected to see, so I have no idea why it refuses to charge at the full 80 amps. Since I know my truck will charge at the full 80 amps from my Tesla HPWC gen2 plus Teslatap, it appears to be something with the FCSP. OBD2 tells me that the FCSP is offering a J1772 pilot duty cycle of only 94.5%, which means it's only advertising 76 amps to the truck and not 80.
• After 20 minutes or so, I got the dreaded amber LED of doom and the FCSP stopped charging. Using my thermometer, I observed that the FCSP had reached 123 degrees F in an ambient garage temperature of 97 degrees (air temp outside 98). Equipment in a garage is supposed to be able to tolerate that level of heat - I have no idea why it's so sensitive.

Ford, this FCSP is a complete pile of garbage. I usually reserve very strong opinions like that, but I feel confident in saying that this is absolutely, positively horrible.

If someone asked me today whether they should buy a Charge Station Pro, I'd tell them to buy a third party EVSE. At this point I'm even considering ripping it out and replacing it with another used Tesla gen 2 HPWC and Teslatap.

 

[PiMatrix]

Wow, thanks for review. I had posted in another thread about one of the 240V wires that go off to the lightning not being tightened to spec. Could you do your pyrometer measurement on those two connections and see if they are hotter than other areas due to out of spec torque?

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/charge-station-pro-problems.11077/post-234586

 

[Deleted member 9341]

Alrighty, part deux!

This morning I installed my FCSP. And I probably should have anticipated it would be as bad as it was. Observation set #2 for @Ford Motor Company:

• I decided to surface-mount an electrical 4-inch square box and then use a 2x4 as a wall standoff for mounting lags as my installation type. I fed the 2 #3 conductors and #6 ground (didn't have #8 on hand, so I went a little bigger) through the cable gland. As I was tightening up the lugs, I could feel that they weren't too secure and I couldn't get them as tight as I would like for 3 AWG connections. It appears that they are just connected via aluminum to the contactors inside the unit, with no structural attachment to the unit. That's crazy! And WHY a 5/32 allen key for the lugs?! There are plenty of better options than aluminum allen key lugs!
• The rest of the install went with no issues, I connected the conductors, screwed the case on, and popped on the gray bezel - except it isn't very secure. Whenever you insert the CCS connector into the holder in the face of the chassis, the gray bezel pops loose and falls onto the cord. Why that bezel couldn't have had 3 screws to hold it on is beyond me - it's cheap.
• I turned on the power and allowed the unit to go through its boot cycle while I downloaded the FCSP setup app and installed it. Then I started going through the steps. I found the station's broadcasted wireless network and connected to it after entering the password, and the app found it. The FCSP found my home network (the access point is directly across the garage), and it threw an error saying "couldn't connect". But then when I clicked "try again", it said "successfully connected". So no idea what happened there - but it's not intuitive at all and the whole setup process was designed by an engineer without an ounce of user experience training.
• Then the app asked me to connect the FCSP to FordPass. It opened up the FordPass application with the station name and password all filled in for me. But when I clicked "next", the FordPass app responded "Chargepoint not found!" and after a few retries, it said "too many requests, try again in 15 minutes". I rebooted my phone, closed all the apps, and tried again 15 minutes later, only for it to tell me the same thing - "Chargepoint not found!" No documentation covers this error case - in fact, Google can't even find this error - so I'm kinda stuck here.
• I started charging the truck for the first time. Using my OBD2 scanner app, I could see the truck was drawing 16.8 kW - that's not the 19.2 kW I expected to see, so I have no idea why it refuses to charge at the full 80 amps. Since I know my truck will charge at the full 80 amps from my Tesla HPWC gen2 plus Teslatap, it appears to be something with the FCSP. OBD2 tells me that the FCSP is offering a J1772 pilot duty cycle of only 94.5%, which means it's only advertising 76 amps to the truck and not 80.
• After 20 minutes or so, I got the dreaded amber LED of doom and the FCSP stopped charging. Using my thermometer, I observed that the FCSP had reached 123 degrees F in an ambient garage temperature of 97 degrees (air temp outside 98). Equipment in a garage is supposed to be able to tolerate that level of heat - I have no idea why it's so sensitive.

Ford, this FCSP is a complete pile of garbage. I usually reserve very strong opinions like that, but I feel confident in saying that this is absolutely, positively horrible.

If someone asked me today whether they should buy a Charge Station Pro, I'd tell them to buy a third party EVSE. At this point I'm even considering ripping it out and replacing it with another used Tesla gen 2 HPWC and Teslatap.

It even looks cheap, unsophisticated and low tech. Sad looking unit

 

[FlasherZ]

Wow, thanks for review. I had posted in another thread about one of the 240V wires that go off to the lightning not being tightened to spec. Could you do your pyrometer measurement on those two connections and see if they are hotter than other areas due to out of spec torque?

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/charge-station-pro-problems.11077/post-234586

I found mine torqued appropriately. Heat was coming off the contactors primarily.

 

[PiMatrix]

I found mine torqued appropriately. Heat was coming off the contactors primarily.

Thank you FlasherZ, a few questions - 1) is the wire to car "hot" or warm, 2) do you have a temperature reading on the contactors, both the one coming in from panel and one going out to lightning? both at startup and say a bit before you'd expect a shutdown 3) with your pyrometer laser, is this the hottest area on the circuit board, 4) if the charger is run without the cover in place does it still shutdown? Even with cover off I'd expect the local contactor to heat up pretty quickly if that is source of heat.

 

[FlasherZ]

Ok - I took the cover off the unit and measured the temp of each component while charging to see where the heat was coming from. Temperatures were measured immediately after removing the cover.

Component	Temp (degF)
Lower contactor	146
Lower charge cable terminal (blue)	144
Upper contactor	163
Upper charge cable terminal (brown)	163
WiFi controller / SOC	144
Power supply	167

The terminals were torqued properly / the same, so the only conclusion I could reach on these temperatures is that the upper contactor and terminal was absorbing heat released by the lower contactor in addition to their own. Both contactors are directly beneath the power supply on the board, and it seems that those components are also absorbing the heat from below (in addition to their own generation).

The Tesla HPWC can also get a bit toasty internally. During 72A charging today, its smaller chassis reached 115 degF on the surface and its contactors reached 135 degF (just for comparison). Tesla appears to use "beefier" contactors that generate less heat.

 

[FlasherZ]

Even with cover off I'd expect the local contactor to heat up pretty quickly if that is source of heat.

I posted an update in the other thread... with the cover off and a fan blowing on the components, it no longer stops charging.

The contactors do produce heat, but I think the issue is trapped convection inside the case. With the cover removed and a fan blowing on components, the two contactors have equivalent readings.

Temp of AC input terminals was about 133 degrees.

 

[PV2EV]

I think I will revise my plan. Instead of mounting the FCSP outside on the wall, I will mount inside, next to my heat pump water heater exhaust to cool it.

I will still install the ChargePoint Flex on the opposite side, outside the garage wall, as a backup.

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