White House releases plan to build nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers

[Mr. Flibble]

I “get” the whole “go green” thing and I’m glad Elon Musk has shamed and frightened the auto industry into refining the EV.

And I KNOW that EVs aren’t really going to be a viable option for the masses until the “Range Anxiety” issue is addressed.

But…

When my Dewalt battery dies I replace it with a CHARGED battery. I don’t just stop working until it recharges.

You CAN’T tell me that with all the advancements in robotics, car manufacturers CAN’T come up with a swappable “battery pack”.

You pull in with your dead battery, a robot unplugs it, plugs in a charged one in LESS TIME than it takes me to fill my tank with gasoline and you’re on your way.

The Government loves to FORCE the auto industry to do things… why don’t they FORCE them to standardize on a swappable battery pack for EVs AND THEN sink piles of our tax dollars into building swapping stations?

As others have mentioned, this is being done elsewhere. But the truth of the matter is that most people drive less than 30 miles a day. So there is no need for battery swaps.

Realistically, with the technology we have today, if you regularly drive long distances, you should be driving a gas hybrid or diesel.

Battery swaps might make sense for something like long-haul trucks in the future, but at this point in time if we want wider EV adoption, its not really needed.

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[EaglesPDX]

You argue that few can charge at work,

Which is a fact. One only need look at all the business parks, corporate HQ's, hospitals. We are building a new clinic and financial arguments to the board for EV charging don't work and we have a lot of PHEV/EV's from CEO to CFO to partners to employees and a board that wants to do it.

Over at the hospital, one or two L2 chargers for staffs in the 1,000 range. For the hospital to even consider spending money on more L2 chargers is out of the question even with the incentives in the new bill.

And this is an EV hotspot area.

EV driver behavior and finances and charging basics all point to fast DC charging network to support travel and those with no home charging.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Which is a fact. One only need look at all the business parks, corporate HQ's, hospitals. We are building a new clinic and financial arguments to the board for EV charging don't work and we have a lot of PHEV/EV's from CEO to CFO to partners to employees and a board that wants to do it.

Over at the hospital, one or two L2 chargers for staffs in the 1,000 range. For the hospital to even consider spending money on more L2 chargers is out of the question even with the incentives in the new bill.

And this is an EV hotspot area.

EV driver behavior and finances and charging basics all point to fast DC charging network to support travel and those with no home charging.

You are just picking anecdotes. Your own link about EV Charging from EV Consumer behaviour says that people can and do charge at work, and it is the second most popular charging location after charging at home.

It also says that people perceive that they require an L3 charger before buying an EV car, but it turns out that in real use, they don’t actually need them.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Realistically, with the technology we have today, if you regularly drive long distances, you should be driving a gas hybrid or diesel.

Realistically, with the technology we have today, if you regularly drive long distances, you should be driving an EV.

Certainly works fine for me at TWICE national average and long distance commutes.

Funny how those who do it say it's easy. Those who don't see problems.

 

[EaglesPDX]

You are just picking anecdotes.

Facts on the ground which applies to EVERY corporate HQ, corporate office park, hospital, factory, mall and this in an EV/CARB state. The upscale mall shopping eco REI. Five chargers in a mall lot of 2,000 cars. If you spent HOURS there charging, you'd get 50-75 miles. All five of you.

Anecdotes that match the facts of EV driver behavior, fast DC.

Anecdotes that match the facts of charging company billion dollar investments, fast DC

Anecdotes that match the facts of EV mfg million dollar investments in the charging companies, fast DC.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Realistically, with the technology we have today, if you regularly drive long distances, you should be driving an EV.

Certainly works fine for me at TWICE national average and long distance commutes.

Funny how those who do it say it's easy. Those who don't see problems.

You are an outlier.

The simple fact of the matter is that you can only do this if you value your time poorly.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Facts on the ground which applies to EVERY corporate HQ, corporate office park, hospital, factory, mall and this in an EV/CARB state. The upscale mall shopping eco REI. Five chargers in a mall lot of 2,000 cars. If you spent HOURS there charging, you'd get 50-75 miles. All five of you.

Anecdotes that match the facts of EV driver behavior, fast DC.

Anecdotes that match the facts of charging company billion dollar investments, fast DC

Anecdotes that match the facts of EV mfg million dollar investments in the charging companies, fast DC.

You keep moving the goalposts.

You post links that supposedly support your argument, but the actual articles refute your arguments.

The simple fact of the matter is, that you personally want an EV. Thats fine. I have one too, and lots of the people on this forum clearly do too.

Most people want to charge at home, and not be hassled with charge times. You are the outlier here. Not everyone has the spare time to do this, it is a bad value proposition.

If you want to do that, great! But building out a network to have everyone adopt inconvenient charging is not a viable plan for everyone else.

You do you, but don’t propose that everyone wants to copy your methods.

 

[UNIKRN150]

As others have mentioned, this is being done elsewhere. But the truth of the matter is that most people drive less than 30 miles a day. So there is no need for battery swaps.

Realistically, with the technology we have today, if you regularly drive long distances, you should be driving a gas hybrid or diesel.

Battery swaps might make sense for something like long-haul trucks in the future, but at this point in time if we want wider EV adoption, its not really needed.

Yeah but "range anxiety" is an emotional thing. It's more "perception" than reality for the very reasons you lay out.

But it's "real" and it's a problem.

 

[EaglesPDX]

You are an outlier.

Leading edge.

25% of EV owners based on the facts.

As price of EV's goes down and charging speed goes up (the new Kia and Hyundai's are 800V), makes it easier and easier for the 50% with no home charging and the 97% with no work charging to own an EV.

As we see from facts, it can be done today in the right area with good fast DC coverage.

 

[EaglesPDX]

You keep moving the goalposts.

Because I keep replying to your new complaints after debunking your previous claims with facts and links. Keeps me busy but educational.

When you said 85% had home charging in Norway, actually looked it up and it was 95%.

When you said no fast DC charging in Norway, actually looked it up and it was 50:1 ratio, twice that of US with reliable EV tester, Nyland, demonstrating it with video after video on top of the stats.

Hmmm.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Yeah but "range anxiety" is an emotional thing. It's more "perception" than reality for the very reasons you lay out.

But it's "real" and it's a problem.

Oh, absolutely. It is a real thing, had it myself after buying our EV.

However, what happens is that people see others with EVs and begin to ask questions. Then they get answers, and they start adopting EVs themselves.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

Because I keep replying to your new complaints after debunking your previous claims with facts and links. Keeps me busy but educational.

When you said 85% had home charging in Norway, actually looked it up and it was 95%.

When you said no fast DC charging in Norway, actually looked it up and it was 50:1 ratio, twice that of US with reliable EV tester, Nyland, demonstrating it with video after video on top of the stats.

Hmmm.

Yes, because my sources were older, and the numbers increased since the articles were written, and increased in my arguments favour I might add:



https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136192091930896X

https://www.delta-ee.com/delta-ee-blog/entry/lessons-learned-from-ev-charging-in-norway.html

Either way, you are arguing based on a position that works for you, but not others.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Yeah but "range anxiety" is an emotional thing

Range anxiety is a real thing.

Testing snows on drive up to Mt. Hood in a blizzard. Get to Hood River which has Tesla and EA chargers, have 100 miles on range figure I'll hit Hood, 35 miles. Get 30 miles up and it says 19 miles left...eek!

Turned around, going downhill, slow in the snow and at 35 mph, I was charging the battery. Over 35 mph and I'd be losing range.

Good thing they were all fast DC chargers in town. L2, I would have been in Hood River for the night.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Either way, you are arguing based on a position that works for you, but not others.

It works for EV mfgs investing in fast DC chargers.

It works for EV charging mfgs investing in fast DC chargers.

It works for EV owners with no home charging.

It is based on facts of EV charging behavior, 25% outside the home now and that's with EV owner base heavily skewed to home owners.

The people putting their money on the line, billions, are putting it on fast DC charging.

To be clear, nothing against L2. Great if you can get it. I'd require all new homes, apts/condos, office parks to have L2 at every parking spot but US is not there.

Looking at the 500,000 chargers that barely passed Congress, if fast DC, that covers 30,000,000 EV owners, if L2, 1,000,000.

 

[ZOSICK]

Still beats a polluting gas car, thumbs up from me to everyone thoughtful enough to sacrifice a little bit of convenience for a greater societal good.

Please lol. You're driving a car that is far less efficient (overall) than a gas powered one. Actual Co2 emissions, you got of gas people beat, no arguing that. You must have bought an EV's with recyclable batteries. However, to say you're doing something for the greater good is a very far stretch. On behalf of the world, thank you for your "sacrifice" and for being so "thoughtful" lol. Please share with the rest us who don't make sacrifices for the greater societal good on what you are doing. It must really be rough never traveling on plane, owning any that pollutes or owning things not made in a country that pollutes more than the U.S. does.

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