Ideas for soft encouragement of 85% charge.

[Newton]

It is a technical problem - we need more posts per charging unit. The model is that the chargers are like gas pumps, but there is no need for them to be. One “charger” could supply a large number of cars, with software managing the queue of who gets how much power. When a car first comes in, it gets priority and gets the lion’s share of the available power for up to 10 minutes and then gets progressively cut back (which will happen naturally for most vehicles).

If your are planning on going shopping, go ahead and plug in and leave the car because there are 20 other wires for people to plug into. If you are in a hurry you get in and out quick.

The only downside is that there would be a lot of cables for the cable thieves to go after. Wireless charging will solve that eventually.

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[Effonefiddy Lightning]

No, that would not work. They would have to be forced to move to the back of the line.

How would that be enforced? They just need to build more chargers like Tesla.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

No, that would not work. They would have to be forced to move to the back of the line.

How is this going to work?
C: If somebody has to go over 85% to reach their next stop, they can reconnect again after 10 minutes and be permitted to go from 85 to 100.

 

[ctuan13]

Charge networks could encourage charging only to 85% with a couple of simple software changes.
A: When charge hits 85%, stop charging. Display a message explaining how charging over 85% wastes everyone's time. Ask them to let others have a turn if people are waiting.

B: If people are waiting (maybe detect this by how many other chargers at same site are also in use), refuse to go over 85% until the person disconnects and moves out of the way for at least 10 minutes..

C: If somebody has to go over 85% to reach their next stop, they can reconnect again after 10 minutes and be permitted to go from 85 to 100.

As someone who is making my way back east on a cross country roadtrip while towing a teardrop trailer, this is absolutely terrible idea and would add needless hours to my trip and at least an hour every travel day.

I have enough of a challenge finding chargers in Montana, now you're suggesting they won't even charge to 90% when I get there?

Just the other day, I was only able to make it because I DC charged up to 93%.

Just from a personal perspective and a personal disdain for "solutions" that punish the innocent, NO THANK YOU.

 

[Upstate]

Charging over 80% is situation dependent, not just for the person but for the charging station too.

If companies want to discourage charging over 80% then they should implement a "congestion" fee during times of high usage. An increase in rate cost seems most appropriate but since it's about saving time maybe a time based fee on top of the electricity fee. Charges should be identified up front, drivers can get notified through the app or enter a phone number for a text message.

This should only happen when there is an actual congestion though. Zero need for it if there are three empty stalls...

I'd like to offer two other alternative points. '

First, the last time I rented an EV at Hertz, they obligated me to return the car with the same charge it was when I rented. There was a five percent grace. I got the car at 100%. I had no choice but to recharge to 95% or pay a steep penalty. Fortunately, the charge was quick and did not drop off significantly as the battery recharged (I rented a Pulsar).

Second, as long as the charging network has gaps, some folks simply need to charge to the maximum they can. Even relatively short trips (under 300 miles) might require that. As the network fills out and now, for Ford EV owners, the addition of a Tesla adapter will relieve that significantly.

All that said, courtesy is still applicable. The only assumption I make about others is that they are doing what they need to do and being as considerate toward others as they would want to be treated. I'm okay with waiting for someone who needs the charger more than me. I am also okay with waiting my turn and then, if at all possible, cutting the charging session short because folks are waiting.

 

[p52Ranch]

My thoughts on this thread:
1. Most people are not going to be considerate of other’s “needs” at busy charging stations.
2. Asking folks to move from a high capacity spot to a low capacity spot when it is appropriate isn’t going to work unless there are financial incentives for doing so.
3. We would like for everyone who charges an EV to be knowledgeable about not only their own charging curves but also every other EV on the planet.

Idea 1. Incorporate charge costing besides $kwH based on either %of station capacity and actual charge rate. E.g. if you are only using 12% of the station capacity you get a 50% surcharge.
this of course would require additional training plus require charging locations to be properly maintained.

Idea 2. install devices on the chargers to require driver interaction to continue with inefficient charging. Like maybe you have to stand outside the vehicle with your hand holding a dispenser switch instead of sitting in the AC comfort of your car and watching youtube videos of 101 ways to annoy your fellow humans.

 

[VTbuckeye]

What if instead of charging more for someone to charge to greater than 80/85/90 percent those who want them to move along pay more? They are charging to 100, you want them to stop at 85, it's going to cost you $10... Positive reinforcement versus punishment???

 

[nhlightning]

I didn't read through the whole thread. Coming from the Tesla world (still own a Y but sold the 3 for the Lightning) the idea is to charge until you can get to the next charge stop reliably (not end destination). Most of my charging is done at home (99%) but I did migrate from Northern Nevada to New England (with several 1,000 mile road trips before that) which I drove my fully loaded Tesla Model 3 LR AWD 2700 miles with a son, German shepherd, corn snake (daughters) and packed to the rafters. The idea is short 15–20 minute stops to get you 200+ miles before the next charge. Once you go over 80% charge the time to charge increases dramatically (most likely to preserve the battery from getting overcharged and reducing its life span). The Ford Lightning doesn't show this, but the Tesla's will show your state of charge at the next destination at current charge. Tesla tends to send you on your way with about 5-10% battery remaining to get to your next charge point. I always errored on the side of caution and did 20% on arrival (I wish Ford would do this). This never meant I had to charge to 80%+. Again, the Tesla charging network is reliable and dependable (unlike what I've experienced locally with my Ford - ChargePoint). For the OP, going to 85% at charge stations will only cause the stations to clog up with no benefit to anyone.

 

[mrstancy]

Here’s the problem if your driving cross country there are many charging desert areas and you need a full charge because even if it says you can make it barely sometimes things change that. I understand not everyone drives like that or would even try that but some of us do want to be able to make it without a tow truck and wasted time.
when your in line it’s up to the person how to charge and most don’t need a public charging station because we charge at home. We would it be made more expensive if your needing to get to 100% because we need to encourage evs and be able to take trips with our evs. I think you would discourage and slow the process of change because you will give ICE owners more reasons to not buy a ev. The only way evs are going to become main stream is if they are easy and user friendly and it will have growing pains and will not be perfect until we have stations like we have fuel stations and charge in a shorter period of time. It’s already very expensive to charge at fast charge stations let’s not give ICE owners more reasons not to go electric and cost us ev owners more than than these expensive cars and trucks more costly than they are. Best you can do is talk with people at the charger and point out the real savings that 80% charging brings in longevity of battery and time
2024 F150 Lightning er battery

 

[mrstancy]

Before trying to solve a problem, we need to correctly identify the problem. From my experience and what I've observed others discuss, a problem arises when someone is waiting in line to charge and there is someone charging who doesn't need to be.

There's various reasons why the person doesn't need to be charging. Maybe they already have enough to get to their destination, or they could charge at home but they have free charging at the station, or it would be more efficient to make another charging stop down the road due to their vehicle's charging curve, or they just "feel" like they need more charge than they actually do. Why do people keep charging when they don't need to? Sometimes people don't understand charging curves, sometimes people are just inconsiderate, sometimes it's cheaper, and sometimes they are just not aware of the situation.

Potential solutions to the problem should aim to prevent, deter, or stop people from charging when they don't need to, but also allow people to charge when they need to. And that's the tricky part, because everyone's charging needs are different and every EV charges differently.

The idea to limit charging past, say 80%, does have some basis in fact. Most EVs will slow charging somewhere in the 80-100% range, and the more charge you have, the more likely it is that you can make it to your destination. Charge % is the only variable that can address at least some of the reasons why people charge when they don't need to. It's impossible to know whether someone doesn't need to go past 50%. But as you approach 100%, it's more likely that they don't.

Potential solutions have to address people's behavior to deter them from charging when they don't need to. You could have popup messages, educational videos on the screen, etc. But what people are most responsive to is money. Price is a great, proven way to modify consumer behavior.

My idea is to have tiered pricing. 80-90% the price doubles. 90-100% the price triples. This does nothing to keep people from charging below 80% when they don't need to. But it does address the issue that EVs typically slow charging somewhere in the 80-100% range, and it also addresses the fact that the closer you get to 100%, the less likely you need that much charge.

This would serve as a deterrent, but also allow people the option to fully charge if needed. Sure, it punishes those folks, but the tradeoff is that it's likely to get people out of the way. That tradeoff is something that we need to determine whether it's worth it.

But this will make long distance driving more expensive and give more people more reasons to have the electric car market fail thus less charging stations repaired when broken

 

[mrstancy]

Long distance driving is when you LEAST want to charge to 100%, not most.

Unless there is a specific reason to need more charge, say a charging desert, charging over 80-85% significantly increases trip time to little benefit.

Ignoring the boost phase I can put 4 miles per minute when charging anywhere between 10% and 80%, but over 80% and that changes to 2.5 miles per minute and starts dropping from there, over 90% and that is one mile per minute. Far far better to stop a bit earlier than to try and get those miles

Please reread my whole post you will see that is what was written you only copied the part the highlights the gaslighting aspect of this thread
Please be a little more diligent in your reading and don’t call out people for something you haven’t read correctly

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