Towing Comparison Rivian EV vs. ICE Tundra

[EaglesPDX]

A comparison of towing capability between similar sized ICE and EV pickups.




This is result we will likely seen between the ICE and EV versions of the F150.

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[RickLightning]

Watched the video. Scratching my head.

 

[LightningShow]

Not that bad, actually. If you add up all the things that were giving them a hit to their possible range you would expect a std Rivian to tow that well over 200 miles in better conditions.

 

[sotek2345]

Not that bad, actually. If you add up all the things that were giving them a hit to their possible range you would expect a std Rivian to tow that well over 200 miles in better conditions.

Exactly, I get efficiencies that low in our Mach-e just from cold weather (colder than in this example, but still)

 

[tbinmd]

It will be interesting to see what happens to range of an EV as weight of trailer increases. The test was with a 2k trailer, so what happens with a 4k, 6k or 8k trailer?

 

[LightningShow]

Exactly, I get efficiencies that low in our Mach-e just from cold weather (colder than in this example, but still)

What is your typical efficiency?

It will be interesting to see what happens to range of an EV as weight of trailer increases. The test was with a 2k trailer, so what happens with a 4k, 6k or 8k trailer?

The same channel did a test with an 8k+ trailer and got 1.1 mi/kWh in cold wether. Surprisingly not that much worse.

 

[sotek2345]

What is your typical efficiency?

We haven't really seen typical since we got our Mach-e in December (already cold out). EPA range would be ~3.1 miles per kWhr and some folks in warmer climates have reported even better than that.

So we have seen a ~50% range hit from the cold (below 0F) if we don't do any preconditioning for around town driving.

One thing to note, is that in the cold - faster highway driving actually results in decreased energy use per mile since the heat (battery and cabin) draw so much and that is per unit time not per unit distance. We have gotten up to ~2.1 mi/kWhr on the highway without preconditioning and approached ~2.5 with preconditioning. These were with temperatures in the teens and low 20's.

For quick trips in the cold, I still much prefer the Mach-e to any ICE vehicle, even with the range hit. You can get heat right away and not have to wait for the engine to warm up first! You can also just do a quick cabin heat up from the app which is very easy.

 

[LightningShow]

We haven't really seen typical since we got our Mach-e in December (already cold out). EPA range would be ~3.1 miles per kWhr and some folks in warmer climates have reported even better than that.

So we have seen a ~50% range hit from the cold (below 0F) if we don't do any preconditioning for around town driving.

One thing to note, is that in the cold - faster highway driving actually results in decreased energy use per mile since the heat (battery and cabin) draw so much and that is per unit time not per unit distance. We have gotten up to ~2.1 mi/kWhr on the highway without preconditioning and approached ~2.5 with preconditioning. These were with temperatures in the teens and low 20's.

For quick trips in the cold, I still much prefer the Mach-e to any ICE vehicle, even with the range hit. You can get heat right away and not have to wait for the engine to warm up first! You can also just do a quick cabin heat up from the app which is very easy.

This is the reason that I think all the talk about the winter range reduction is kind of overdone. It doesn't really matter if you take a 50% range hit driving around town, no one is driving 125 miles while running some errands. If you know you need to drive a longer distance, you pre-condition while plugged in and make changes to driving technique and HVAC usage, if necessary. When I don't pay much attention to how I'm using the Bolt I will see 2.0 mi/kWh, sometimes less. When I am careful about efficiency I'll see >3.0mi/kWh for the same conditions. It's not below 0 very often here but it's consistently ~20F and it's not hard to get >3mi/kWh. I've seen as high as 3.6mi/kWh with temps around 30-35 (no HVAC). And this is with primarily highway driving. EPA efficiency for the Bolt is 4.0 mi/kWh but InsideEVs found the 70mph highway efficiency to be more like 3.5 mi/kWh. So, I'm barely losing efficiency against 70mph highway driving.

 

[Sam James]

This is the reason that I think all the talk about the winter range reduction is kind of overdone. It doesn't really matter if you take a 50% range hit driving around town, no one is driving 125 miles while running some errands. If you know you need to drive a longer distance, you pre-condition while plugged in and make changes to driving technique and HVAC usage, if necessary. When I don't pay much attention to how I'm using the Bolt I will see 2.0 mi/kWh, sometimes less. When I am careful about efficiency I'll see >3.0mi/kWh for the same conditions. It's not below 0 very often here but it's consistently ~20F and it's not hard to get >3mi/kWh. I've seen as high as 3.6mi/kWh with temps around 30-35 (no HVAC). And this is with primarily highway driving. EPA efficiency for the Bolt is 4.0 mi/kWh but InsideEVs found the 70mph highway efficiency to be more like 3.5 mi/kWh. So, I'm barely losing efficiency against 70mph highway driving.

Amen. Cold weather complaints are often overblown. As you said, preconditioning and moderate temps/speed will allow your car to remain efficient. We've only made a couple longer trips in the cold, but they were no sweat--which is awesome because there is no DC fast charging between here and KC, for instance

 

[RickLightning]

I was scratching my head at the comparison that was done because it's irrelevant.

- Any idiot knows that an EV truck has no comparison in range to an ICE truck, regardless of whether it's towing or not. This is a "duh" test.

- Range is driven by many factors. ICE range is affected greatly by size of gas tank. F-150 comes with a 23 gallon or a 36 gallon tank. Big difference in range.

- Towing 2,000 pounds matters to no one.

- When towing a travel trailer, many F-150 owners get 8-10 mpg, about 1/2 or less than they do not towing. So it's normal to expect a 50 or 60% drop on an EV also. THAT would be the test. Put a 6,500 pound travel trailer behind the Rivian and compare the results without towing.

- Many expect the F-150, with an extended battery, to have a range of 140 - 150 miles while towing a sizeable travel trailer. In other words, I can drive 2 hours at best before charging.

- Of course charging with a trailer is problematic today, given you'd have to disconnect, charge, and then reconnect, at nearly all DC chargers.

 

[LightningShow]

I think it makes sense in that it's just a typical use case evaluation. If you're used to towing 300+ miles in your Tundra/F-150/Ram/etc before gassing up you need to be aware that you might only do 150 in an EV truck. It's useful information for people who have no idea about EVs. Most of us here already knew, more or less, what the results might be but the great majority of people have no idea about EVs at all, let alone EV towing performance. EVs that can tow are effectively just coming on the market (though, technically, some existing EVs *can* tow).

 

[RickLightning]

It doesn't need to be a video and a big thing. It's simple math.

ICE Truck has 700 mile range without trailer.
ICE Truck has 300 mile range with trailer.

3/7 = 43%

EV truck has 300 mile range without trailer.
Therefore, 300 * .43 = 129 miles.

Easy, peasy.

 

[LightningShow]

It doesn't need to be a video and a big thing. It's simple math.

ICE Truck has 700 mile range without trailer.
ICE Truck has 300 mile range with trailer.

3/7 = 43%

EV truck has 300 mile range without trailer.
Therefore, 300 * .43 = 129 miles.

Easy, peasy.

Sure but some people just like to have it told to them in video format.

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