Chevy Bolts Suck

[Maxx]

A well designed system allows the uneducated and experienced user, the wealthy and poor, the fast and slow coexist. It is just that our charging infrastructure is in it's infancy and needs to evolve. A good design eliminate bad choices and make the right choice the selfish choice.

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[Zprime29]

If there is an open and fully functional stall at a site, there is no need to penalize someone trying to charge to 100%. I'd be okay with demand fee's for charging over 90% once every available stall is in use and someone indicates a need to charge. I imagine a scenario where I pull up and see everything is in use (assuming all stalls are working). I open the app and tap the "high demand" button for this site. Any person charging that is at a SOC >90% gets a notification that they have 5 min to unplug due to site demand before additional fee's are tacked on.

If we can wait an extra 20 min for a 45 min charging stop, then I don't think it unreasonable for someone that needs 90%+ to wait 20-30 min for what is likely a 1.5 hour stop.

There is financial gain for the site operators to maximize throughput so it is inevitable that something along these lines pops up. We ought to be promoting solutions that benefit all as opposed to benefitting the operator only.

 

[roadhouse]

I mean the issue with the 'charging extra at high demand sites' is that by sites in high demand are (by definition) less likely to have alternative charging sites close - which is why people could be trying to squeeze any charge they can out.

I was in this position over Christmas during a trip where there was only one charging station, at roughly the midway point of a journey (with 4 chargers available). My options were
1. Charge to 90+ at a previous charger to give me alternative stop options, or
2. Take a chance on the midpoint spot that was in a charging hole, so if the line was 10+ cars (which it was over Thanksgiving based on Plugshare photos), or wasn't working, I would literally be stuck.

(I took option one, FWIW)

As Maxx says, we shouldn't be wasting effort on incentivizing all sorts of complex behaviors and scenarios - more chargers is the inevitable solution.

 

[Zprime29]

I agree that more chargers will solve 99% of our problems. But I'm also thinking about the charge station operators who want return on their pricey investment. If I were operating a site and became aware of bottlenecks due to people slow charging at high SOC, I would absolutely charge a demand fee so I could increase my throughput and raise my site revenue.

With a little luck, this will all be a non-issue in a couple months time and Tesla starts opening up the walled garden.

 

[LightningShow]

You can't have more charge stations tomorrow. EA can barely get you a charge station by next year. They *CAN* change their pricing structure tomorrow.

I would also suggest making the screen turn yellow when you reach 80% and red when you reach 90%. Everyone being able to easily see when you're hogging a charger is an incentive with no cost to the consumer.

 

[LightningShow]

All of which could be solved through economic incentives to not stretch the use of a scarce resource beyond an individual's needs. You seem to want to place all the blame on the person who needs to charge but can't, while excusing the inefficient use of a finite resource.

There is lots of gray in this discussion, but I am on the side of encouraging DCFC vendors to implement financial incentives to make more efficient use of their chargers.

He's mad at people for noticing when other people are engaging in bad behavior. It makes no sense.

 

[LightningShow]

I added a few ideas to my "cap-and-trade" REWARD point system to disincentivize charging to 100% except when it's really needed.

1. Any charge-to-100% surcharge tax should be adjusted to the expected demand at a charger location for a given date and time. For example, you probably don't need to have a heavy charge-to-100% surcharge at 3 am.
2. Any reward system should reward users who've charged up to 80% from lower states of charge for stopping at 80%. Charging up to 80% earns the maximum future reward points. If you keep charging past 80%, you start losing future credits earned from your current charging session the more you keep charging past 80% SOC. Also, the applicable charge-to-100% surcharge adjusted for expected demand on the current date and time will kick in, which can be defrayed by using already earned discount REWARD points for your vehicle from past charging sessions on a network. If you don't have any in-the-bank REWARD points or can't buy any from other network users, you pay the charge-to-100 surcharge in full.

By controlling how REWARD points are doled out and how surcharges are applied, a network might allow or discourage charging to 100% to the extent that maximizes customer satisfaction with charger availability. Policies could be tailored to demand at specific locations.

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/chevy-bolts-suck.17697/post-359096 (my previous scatter-brained thoughts)

A lot of your ideas make sense. The goal is to make it very clear that charging above 80% is not preferred, the financial penalty is simply the easiest, most straightforward way to do it. There are lots of creative ways to prevent people from incurring monetary penalties while still communicating that it non-optimal behavior.

 

[Maxx]

A few late night mental hiccups on the topic (I hope they make sense in the morning):

• Specific policies and charging rules based on SOC may be temporary since improvement in technology and battery chemistry may change EV charging curves (80 to 100 be just as fast).
• Carrots and sticks that are not implemented by smart systems can cause more problems than they solve. Like policies based on time of day, day of the week or holidays. Charging systems need to be both self aware (know the status of each station) and aware of the vehicles they are connected to. Charging locations also need to communicate with a central system regardless of vendor so both car navigation system and charging stations can have a more accurate predictive algorithm regarding traffic and congestion.
• Supplier needs to be capable of power redistribution between different DCFC chargers at the same location so that the power a slow Bolt is not using could be sent to an Ioniq5 a few stalls away (or on the other side of same stall via a second cable or by disengaging Bolt cable when it is at 100% SOC.
• If there were financial sticks, it could be based on reputation. If an individual has left a vehicle connected passed 100% in fully occupied stations more than once in the past three years, 5% surcharge in any DCFC regardless of vendor.
• Any new EV that comes with free charging must be forced to stop a free charging session once all working stations are occupied and charged idle fee if not removed or started a paid charging session.
• Charging extra high demand fees may incentivize station owners or service providers to make sure charging stations are maxed out and someone is always waiting. Any fees should go to a national network improvement fund.

 

[Snakebitten]

A few late night mental hiccups on the topic (I hope they make sense in the morning):

• Specific policies and charging rules based on SOC may be temporary since improvement in technology and battery chemistry may change EV charging curves (80 to 100 be just as fast).
• Carrots and sticks that are not implemented by smart systems can cause more problems than they solve. Like policies based on time of day, day of the week or holidays. Charging systems need to be both self aware (know the status of each station) and aware of the vehicles they are connected to. Charging locations also need to communicate with a central system regardless of vendor so both car navigation system and charging stations can have a more accurate predictive algorithm regarding traffic and congestion.
• Supplier needs to be capable of power redistribution between different DCFC chargers at the same location so that the power a slow Bolt is not using could be sent to an Ioniq5 a few stalls away (or on the other side of same stall via a second cable or by disengaging Bolt cable when it is at 100% SOC.
• If there were financial sticks, it could be based on reputation. If an individual has left a vehicle connected passed 100% in fully occupied stations more than once in the past three years, 5% surcharge in any DCFC regardless of vendor.
• Any new EV that comes with free charging must be forced to stop a free charging session once all working stations are occupied and charged idle fee if not removed or started a paid charging session.
• Charging extra high demand fees may incentivize station owners or service providers to make sure charging stations are maxed out and someone is always waiting. Any fees should go to a national network improvement fund.

I'd say that you MUST be younger than this old man. At midnight I am well aware that I have less words of wisdom that would hold up well under scrutiny. Heck, I'm counting sheep at midnight.

You are still doing just fine, in my opinion.

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