Farley discusses 2nd Gen F-150 Lightning (Project T3) + Teaser Silhouette

Ford no longer stuck in ‘valuation box,’ 2nd-gen EVs will unlock profitability, CEO says
Ford CEO Jim Farley says a 'bullet-train' three-row EV SUV is on the way
Pras Subramanian
Mon, May 22, 2023 at 7:11 AM PDT

“I think you should realize that everyone's product strategy is not a monolith. We have a very unique strategy compared to our competitors. We're going after larger [electric] vehicles where we know the customers really well, three row crossovers with a lot of room in the rear seat, a personal bullet train, a second-generation Lightning [EV],” Farley said.

At the event, Ford said that the 3-row SUV will have 350 miles of range, plus a smaller battery, better aerodynamics, and a lower manufacturing cost than most current EVs.

Farley said its second-gen EVs will have totally different architectures and be software update-able (meaning higher-margin services). That and electrifying its commercial pro fleet will lead to more “durable” returns in the future, he said.

“The main message is we had to design these second generation products completely different than the first-gen products,” Farley says.

A big part of cost control for EVs is making cheaper batteries. To that end, Ford announced deals today in order to gain the materials necessary to hit its 2 million EV run rate by 2026.

Ford’s deal with China’s CATL to build LFP batteries, which are cheaper, and can be charged more frequently with fewer degradation, will be key. However, working with a Chinese partner has not come without criticisms.

“It turns out that the [battery] processing is the most important thing for us,” Farley said. “We're going to build the batteries ourselves. So it's our factory, we're building the factory, it will be our workers in a plant. We're not going to import the batteries that Tesla has been doing.”

Of course, Tesla (TSLA) is front and center in any discussion of EVs, and Farley has been consistent in his praise of the pure-play EV-maker’s efficiency, though he believes Ford is catching up. Tesla’s massive price cuts have put huge pressure on the industry to respond, and Ford answered with Mustang Mach-E price cuts. Farley believes the cuts are here to stay, and those who aren’t prepared may be doomed.

“We are going to see pricing pressure and if you have not put that in your business plan and you haven't designed second-cycle products with discounting included in your run rate to get to an 8% margin in our case, then it's not going to work out,” Farley said.

“That's why we put so much pressure even on the first-gen products, the Mustang [Mach-E] that is, that faces off of the model Y, we've reduced the price of the bill material by $5000,” Farley said. “We have to go deeper to face off with the Model Y and Tesla, and they're discounting; we knew we had to totally redesign the vehicle.”

Despite Ford’s recent focus on the EV transformation, it is the iconic gas powered cars like the F-150 pickup, Ford Bronco, Mustang, and Expedition SUVs that are still the strong sellers that make the company the money that it is plowing into transformation investments.

Farley noted special edition vehicles like the F-150 Raptor, Bronco Raptor, and the upcoming Dark Horse Mustang not only excite customers, but also bring in higher margins. Ford calls these “derivative vehicles"— special vehicles that highlight the brand’s iconic status whose popularity hopefully trickles down to the higher volume vehicles.

Henry Ford, the namesake of the facility here for Capital Markets day, wanted to build cars for everyone. Farley has a different path for the future.
“We don't want to do generic vehicles anymore,” he said. “We don't want to be all things to all people.”
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I'm excited to see if the second gen Lightning can go toe to toe with the Cybertruck on price and specs. Once the Silverado and Ram REV hit volume production I think there's going to be a lot more competition, capability, and better values to be had in the coming years.

COrocket said:

I'm excited to see if the second gen Lightning can go toe to toe with the Cybertruck on price and specs. Once the Silverado and Ram REV hit volume production I think there's going to be a lot more competition, capability, and better values to be had in the coming years.

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I’m excited also. I don’t think it’ll ever match the Cybertruck unless they make some radical exterior design and gut the interior.

I think this 2nd gen will be miles ahead of all real trucks.

COrocket said:

I'm excited to see if the second gen Lightning can go toe to toe with the Cybertruck on price and specs. Once the Silverado and Ram REV hit volume production I think there's going to be a lot more competition, capability, and better values to be had in the coming years.

Click to expand...

I think we're going to see a whole lot of new truck designs over the next few years as competition heats up. Capability and performance is going to increase a lot in the face of competition and ICE trucks are going to get left in the dust I guess. I know our 1st-gen Lightnings won't age that well or hold a ton of value as the newer generations arrive. I'm OK with that, kinda figured that before I bought it. It's unfortunate we had to see prices go up across the industry over the past 18 months or so. When the time comes to replace my Lighting, I know I won't be able to sell or trade it for a lot compared to current prices, but I should also be able to buy something new that gives me a lot more truck.

Monkey said:

I think we're going to see a whole lot of new truck designs over the next few years as competition heats up. Capability and performance is going to increase a lot in the face of competition and ICE trucks are going to get left in the dust I guess. I know our 1st-gen Lightnings won't age that well or hold a ton of value as the newer generations arrive. I'm OK with that, kinda figured that before I bought it. It's unfortunate we had to see prices go up across the industry over the past 18 months or so. When the time comes to replace my Lighting, I know I won't be able to sell or trade it for a lot compared to current prices, but I should also be able to buy something new that gives me a lot more truck.

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If the truck meets your needs, just keep it until it wouldn't be worth anything anyway, problem solved.

astricklin said:

If the truck meets your needs, just keep it until it wouldn't be worth anything anyway, problem solved.

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That's my plan. As long as I get my heated steering wheel.... I've owned my Lighting Lariat for 6 months now. It's great. Does everything I need and the only place it falls short of what I ultimately want is in range. Range is only an issue on the odd chance I'm towing for a longer distance (super rare for me) or I want to go camping. I'm planning to take a generator with me for camping in case I need to add some charge, but we'll see how it goes. I've been trying to give it a try the past few weeks, but just can't seem to get there. Soon...

Monkey said:

That's my plan. As long as I get my heated steering wheel.... I've owned my Lighting Lariat for 6 months now. It's great. Does everything I need and the only place it falls short of what I ultimately want is in range. Range is only an issue on the odd chance I'm towing for a longer distance (super rare for me) or I want to go camping. I'm planning to take a generator with me for camping in case I need to add some charge, but we'll see how it goes. I've been trying to give it a try the past few weeks, but just can't seem to get there. Soon...

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If where you are camping has 50 amp RV spots, book one of those for a night and charge up with your mobile charger.
Heck a weekend on just 110v should get you close to half a charge.

my Lightning is my 8th f 150 truck. I have owned F150s since my first in 1981. I dont think I would be interested if the new generation (T3) doesn’t resemble in some way the typical F 150

F150EV23 said:

my Lightning is my 8th f 150 truck. I have owned F150s since my first in 1981. I dont think I would be interested if the new generation (T3) doesn’t resemble in some way the typical F 150

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In what way? Stylistically, it's going to look sportier, and more futuristic. But I don't see that as a bad thing. The current lighting isn't a bad looking truck, but it's a little vanilla.

I'm hoping to see a futuristic design that still has appeal without trying too hard. Ram almost had that with the ram revolution concept, which looked amazing. But ruined it with the production version.

astricklin said:

If where you are camping has 50 amp RV spots, book one of those for a night and charge up with your mobile charger.
Heck a weekend on just 110v should get you close to half a charge.

Click to expand...

I don't do campgrounds and such. I'm more of a middle of nowhere, off on BLM land or as far as I can get from people sort of camper. I've been mapping some of my familiar spots in relation to charging options and there's a couple that are do-able, but just barely. So the generator is definitely a must just in case. I've been looking at portable solar arrays and there's a lot of promising new tech coming along there at the higher end of the market -- not all the "solar generator" crap that most places are shilling. While the tech is starting to look promising, the prices are insane at the moment.

AP News summarized Farley's 5/21/23 talk with more emphasis on other points he made vs. the spin in the quoted press release in the OP post. https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...v-losses-for-the-first-time.14960/post-317860

Monkey said:

I don't do campgrounds and such. I'm more of a middle of nowhere, off on BLM land or as far as I can get from people sort of camper. I've been mapping some of my familiar spots in relation to charging options and there's a couple that are do-able, but just barely. So the generator is definitely a must just in case. I've been looking at portable solar arrays and there's a lot of promising new tech coming along there at the higher end of the market -- not all the "solar generator" crap that most places are shilling. While the tech is starting to look promising, the prices are insane at the moment.

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Ya we mostly stay at state parks but I think some more remote camping may be in the future. I just got a new sleeping bags and a smaller tent and stuff.

I've seen some generator tests trying to charge from them and it doesn't always work, be sure to test things out beforehand.

COrocket said:

I'm excited to see if the second gen Lightning can go toe to toe with the Cybertruck on price and specs. Once the Silverado and Ram REV hit volume production I think there's going to be a lot more competition, capability, and better values to be had in the coming years.

Click to expand...

My guess is the 2nd Gen Lightning does not have to go Toe to Toe with the CyberTruck.

The styling of the CyberTruck is not for everyone. Heck, some buyers actually will want to pick their favorite color!

Yes the T-3 will need to be competitive in things like range, features, etc, but the current Lightning is a very nice truck. If Ford can improve upon that, they are really in competition with Ram and GM pickups, not the CyberTruck.

Elon Musk is projecting the CyberTruck will probably only sell 250,000 a year. That will leave Ford a chance to sell a lot of T3-F150s.

F150EV23 said:

my Lightning is my 8th f 150 truck. I have owned F150s since my first in 1981. I dont think I would be interested if the new generation (T3) doesn’t resemble in some way the typical F 150

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A lot of buyers will feel the same.

The CyberTruck styling, and no color choices, won't be for everyone.

Monkey said:

I think we're going to see a whole lot of new truck designs over the next few years as competition heats up. Capability and performance is going to increase a lot in the face of competition and ICE trucks are going to get left in the dust I guess. I know our 1st-gen Lightnings won't age that well or hold a ton of value as the newer generations arrive. I'm OK with that, kinda figured that before I bought it. It's unfortunate we had to see prices go up across the industry over the past 18 months or so. When the time comes to replace my Lighting, I know I won't be able to sell or trade it for a lot compared to current prices, but I should also be able to buy something new that gives me a lot more truck.

Click to expand...

astricklin said:

If the truck meets your needs, just keep it until it wouldn't be worth anything anyway, problem solved.

Click to expand...

Monkey said:

That's my plan. As long as I get my heated steering wheel.... I've owned my Lighting Lariat for 6 months now. It's great. Does everything I need and the only place it falls short of what I ultimately want is in range. Range is only an issue on the odd chance I'm towing for a longer distance (super rare for me) or I want to go camping. I'm planning to take a generator with me for camping in case I need to add some charge, but we'll see how it goes. I've been trying to give it a try the past few weeks, but just can't seem to get there. Soon...

Click to expand...

All of this being said, I just worry about parts and availability for warranty concerns. I don't expect to be vastly different, but different enough that you won't be able to stick the square peg in a round hole without some sort of modification.