18" vs 20" OEM Wheels for Battery Range

[Yellow Buddy]

I have a 2023 Lariat ER, I was able to buy it off the lot and take it home same-day. Overall, I have been incredibly happy with the truck, but my range so far has been... worryingly bad.

I need to make a semi-frequent round trip 150 miles each way, and so highway range does matter to me. I knew I would take a highway range hit from the EPA estimated 320, and so I figured ~260miles and that I would need to juice up once on the 300 mile trip (plus some in-town driving). But I've been getting 1.6 or 1.7 m/kwh on the highway (cruise control at 75mph). 60 degrees, fair weather, etc., Hankook Dynapro All Terrains on 20" wheels from the dealer.

This seems below what most are reporting, and so I'm looking for ways to increase range. I've seen some discussions of 18" wheels producing better range, but I can't find anything that analyzes the difference in depth, especially assuming the same tires.

What kind of efficiency difference can I actually expect by changing from the 20" wheels to the 18"? Can you point me at any sources that dig into this?

That seems low...

My 2022 Lariat ER only dips down to 1.6 or 1.7 when I'm doing 85mph+ on the highway, and I'm talking about long trips. Once to twice a month I do a 1000 mile round trip drive.

I get 1.5 on average with a 25' camper in tow at 70-75mph.

I can get 280-290 miles reliably out of my truck, except for two months where the truck was nerfed and I was getting only about 250.

Oh - and this is with big elephant eared tow mirrors on my truck too. 20's. Antenna Delete. Tonneau cover.

HVAC set to 68-70 typically, Auto-1 bar.

At 75mph I get about 1.8-2.1, up to 2.3 if the weather is PERFECT.

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[simbaesq]

I am sorry to hear that. You should have looked around here and ask questions about range and usage model.

Anyway, during very cold days be careful when you have to drive 150 miles and cannot charge it during the day, use heated seat instead of HAVC which is resistance heating and very power hungry.

As always, I would say prepare 50% of the EPA USABLE range during 0F days on freeway. Usable means you need to reserve at least 5% when you arrive home, you don't want to drive too slow (close to 70mph), and you have to turn on heating.

To be clear, I like virtually everything else about the Lightning, and I like it *a lot*. It's just important to note how different a tone the EV evangelists take with people considering EVs to begin with. It's like they don't realize the needs and use-cases of many people.

Many of us have to drive hundreds of miles, on roads where the flow of traffic is 75-80mph. The 1-in-100 a**hole who drives 65mph creates a back-log of semis all in the left lane passing him, and so everyone else gets bunched up, and gets angry at the dude going 65.

When we're considering EVs, the tone is "EV anxiety is a silly feeling for unexperienced EV drivers. EVs can do everything you need them to...." Etc. etc. Once we get them and they don't fit our use-case, the tone changes to "Well you can't use an EV that way."

I did know I would take a range hit. I did not expect anywhere near the EPAe 320miles. But I also didn't expect *half* that in real-world trips (and that's BEFORE the winter...). Everyone considering an EV in the Midwest needs to know the full truth, warts and all, BEFORE purchasing. It doesn't help anyone to sugar-coat. An EV, at least one with this highway range, is completely unusable for many of us.

I'm really bummed because, like I said, I love most everything about this truck. But I don't think I can keep it. I think I'll have to sell it in the next few months and take the financial hit.

 

[simbaesq]

That seems low...

My 2022 Lariat ER only dips down to 1.6 or 1.7 when I'm doing 85mph+ on the highway, and I'm talking about long trips. Once to twice a month I do a 1000 mile round trip drive.

I get 1.5 on average with a 25' camper in tow at 70-75mph.

I can get 280-290 miles reliably out of my truck, except for two months where the truck was nerfed and I was getting only about 250.

Oh - and this is with big elephant eared tow mirrors on my truck too. 20's. Antenna Delete. Tonneau cover.

HVAC set to 68-70 typically, Auto-1 bar.

At 75mph I get about 1.8-2.1, up to 2.3 if the weather is PERFECT.

Damn. I wish I got these numbers.

I could make it work with these numbers... I could even make it work with 250!

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Damn. I wish I got these numbers.

I could make it work with these numbers... I could even make it work with 250!

My suspicion would be your tires. We're nearly identical except I'm on General Grabbers.

The Pro is on 18" and the tire pressure is significantly lower than the 20" Lariat ER. I can't see how that would help, the aero pattern is also not as good. There's more coverage on the Lariat wheels.

The only aero bits I have different from you are all in this picture and the mirrors more than offset my antenna delete.

Since you do this trip quite a bit I would recommend you try a couple of things to see if it impacts you. I have certainly played around with this truck (and others) to get a sense as to how to drive it and each vehicle is different.

If you can afford ABRP premium and an OBDII, grab it because it'll help you narrow it down. If not, you can likely still get an idea but it won't be as accurate - mostly due to weather.

Things I do before I head out on my trips.

1. Time my charging so I hit 100% within 15-30 minutes of when I need to leave. Often I will charge up to 90% and fill the last 10% using a 80A L2 charger. That heats up the battery and prepares it for the trip.

2. Time my HVAC. In line with the charging, I precondition the truck manually. I aim for 68F on road trips. If it's heating season, I will bump it to 72-75F before I leave. If it's cooling season I will set it to 65-67F before I leave.

3. Double check my cold tire pressures. I air up to 45psi if it's hot out (80F+) 47psi if it's colder (<65F). I aim for my tire pressures to be right at 49psi, occasionally touching 50psi. It's a harsher ride but it does add a noticeable difference over 42-45psi on road trip range (roughly 5-10%)

4. Turn off HVAC when I leave - only if it's between 40F-75F outside. I usually leave in the AM and the truck will heat up as I drive via the sun. I find I'm usually good with the HVAC off if I precondition until about 11am. This doesn't make a huge impact but just something I've gotten used to in other cars and for the 1st leg, gives me just enough to get to a charger 30 miles later vs stopping a tad early with a dozen or so miles extra.

5. Lastly, take it off of cruise control. The traffic pattern may or may not be impacting your efficiency. Cruise doesn't account far enough ahead and can waste energy speeding up and slowing. I'll use Bluecruise when it's wide open but I'll take it off if it starts to get thicker. I didn't measure it but if I had to guess I'd say 70-80% of my trip is off cruise.

As for speed, 75mph is perfectly fine and I cruise around 70-80mph consistently. Give those a try, hopefully you can eek out a bit more.

 

[Pioneer74]

Ford was eagerly encouraging 400

Where?

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...ford-f-150-lightning-epa-estimated-range.html

 

[simbaesq]

My suspicion would be your tires. We're nearly identical except I'm on General Grabbers.

The Pro is on 18" and the tire pressure is significantly lower than the 20" Lariat ER. I can't see how that would help, the aero pattern is also not as good. There's more coverage on the Lariat wheels.

The only aero bits I have different from you are all in this picture and the mirrors more than offset my antenna delete.

Since you do this trip quite a bit I would recommend you try a couple of things to see if it impacts you. I have certainly played around with this truck (and others) to get a sense as to how to drive it and each vehicle is different.

If you can afford ABRP premium and an OBDII, grab it because it'll help you narrow it down. If not, you can likely still get an idea but it won't be as accurate - mostly due to weather.

Things I do before I head out on my trips.

1. Time my charging so I hit 100% within 15-30 minutes of when I need to leave. Often I will charge up to 90% and fill the last 10% using a 80A L2 charger. That heats up the battery and prepares it for the trip.

2. Time my HVAC. In line with the charging, I precondition the truck manually. I aim for 68F on road trips. If it's heating season, I will bump it to 72-75F before I leave. If it's cooling season I will set it to 65-67F before I leave.

3. Double check my cold tire pressures. I air up to 45psi if it's hot out (80F+) 47psi if it's colder (<65F). I aim for my tire pressures to be right at 49psi, occasionally touching 50psi. It's a harsher ride but it does add a noticeable difference over 42-45psi on road trip range (roughly 5-10%)

4. Turn off HVAC when I leave - only if it's between 40F-75F outside. I usually leave in the AM and the truck will heat up as I drive via the sun. I find I'm usually good with the HVAC off if I precondition until about 11am. This doesn't make a huge impact but just something I've gotten used to in other cars and for the 1st leg, gives me just enough to get to a charger 30 miles later vs stopping a tad early with a dozen or so miles extra.

5. Lastly, take it off of cruise control. The traffic pattern may or may not be impacting your efficiency. Cruise doesn't account far enough ahead and can waste energy speeding up and slowing. I'll use Bluecruise when it's wide open but I'll take it off if it starts to get thicker. I didn't measure it but if I had to guess I'd say 70-80% of my trip is off cruise.

As for speed, 75mph is perfectly fine and I cruise around 70-80mph consistently. Give those a try, hopefully you can eek out a bit more.

This is so much more helpful than the people saying "Just drive 65mph." Thank you.

My tires say to keep them at 36psi cold, but I've been at ~44psi. I don't know if I want to go much higher than that, given how low the recommended pressure is. (It says max pressure is 50psi).

I will try the cruise control pointer. A lot of the trip is pretty open road (57 south of Chicago is about 80 miles of nothing) but there are parts denser with cars.

I still don't think those could be accounting for our difference. You really don't think your 18s and grippers are making the difference?

 

[AI_Speed]

Where?

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...ford-f-150-lightning-epa-estimated-range.html

Where indeed - has Ford denied these articles on range?

https://electrek.co/2021/05/28/ford-f150-lightning-range-cargo/

"Ford F-150 Lightning’s 300-mile range is with 1,000 lbs. of cargo, actual range could be over 400 miles."

 

[invertedspear]

Where indeed - has Ford denied these articles on range?

https://electrek.co/2021/05/28/ford-f150-lightning-range-cargo/

"Ford F-150 Lightning’s 300-mile range is with 1,000 lbs. of cargo, actual range could be over 400 miles."

I mean, yeah, Ford denied that by releasing the actual number of 320 miles. You don't really expect ford to go around denying every claim by every source that was made prior to the official publication of range numbers do you?

 

[AI_Speed]

I mean, yeah, Ford denied that by releasing the actual number of 320 miles. You don't really expect ford to go around denying every claim by every source that was made prior to the official publication of range numbers do you?

No - that is unrealistic to expect. Can you find one time though for their official EPA estimate they could clearly state that 400 miles - as some sources are reporting - is not possible even with no 1,000 lb. payload? Without the payload - even 320 miles is suspect - the real functional range is about 240 at best between 15% - 85% charging - then 25% less in winter cold / summer heat.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

This is so much more helpful than the people saying "Just drive 65mph." Thank you.

My tires say to keep them at 36psi cold, but I've been at ~44psi. I don't know if I want to go much higher than that, given how low the recommended pressure is. (It says max pressure is 50psi).

I will try the cruise control pointer. A lot of the trip is pretty open road (57 south of Chicago is about 80 miles of nothing) but there are parts denser with cars.

I still don't think those could be accounting for our difference. You really don't think your 18s and grippers are making the difference?

It’s definitely your tires I just realized you had all terrains. My 18” tires on the Pro were also all terrains and recommend a 36psi as well and gets noticeably lower efficiency.

My 20” Grabbers recommend 42psi. So by going to 45-47psi cold I’m only bumping them up about 10% at max. The 50psi max is also why I aim for 49psi hot to stay at or under the max.

On other vehicles I’ve seen as much as a 25% difference in efficiency due to tires, but haven’t tested it thoroughly on the Lightning. On the Rivian I noted a 10-15% difference going from all terrains to all season sports, and a 20-30% difference going from all terrain to all seasons comfort

If you don’t need all terrains, see if someone would swap with you. I’d be willing to wager you’ll find 10-15% in efficiency there.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Dang you all are hypermilers! I average 1.7 mi/kWh after 6000 miles.

On my ER, I’m averaging 2.1 with over 15,000 miles on her - averaging almost 3,000 miles per month.

As for hypermiling, I know I shouldn’t but the truck has seen 80mph with a trailer in tow and has hit the limiter without one…

I guess Ford put an extra cell or two in mine…might also be why some of my HVB modules need to be replaced.

 

[AI_Speed]

On my ER, I’m averaging 2.1 with over 15,000 miles on her - averaging almost 3,000 miles per month.

As for hypermiling, I know I shouldn’t but the truck has seen 80mph with a trailer in tow and has hit the limiter without one…

I guess Ford put an extra cell or two in mine…might also be why some of my HVB modules need to be replaced.

What kind of error messages do you get - HVB module specific or random performance failures?

 

[Yellow Buddy]

What kind of error messages do you get - HVB module specific or random performance failures?

No message whatsoever, but a recent recall notice and a trip to the dealer confirmed I needed replacement.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I'm going to start looking into selling private party or trading in to get an R1T. I'm really bummed I came to that decision, and the money hit I'm going to have to take is going to suck, but numerous Lightning owners responding to my issue with "just drive at unusably slow speeds" has made me realize this problem is not going to be addressable.

The rivian is only marginally better at speeds >75 MPH due to slightly better aerodynamics and the conserve mode. Don’t expect 30%!

I have some real data for you so you don't need to speculate and potentially be disapointed.

My Lightning ER has a lifetime average of 2.1mi/kWh over 15,000 miles. My R1T has a lifetime average of 2.14mi/kWh over 10,000 miles (mix usage of All Terrains, Sport, and Comfort Wheels/Tires). Lifetime, we're talking about a 2% difference over the life of the vehicles. Small enough to account for any usage differences. (EPA rates them 3% apart in efficiency)

The key is how you're using it. Towing a trailer? The Ford is more efficient. Going on a long drive by yourself? Take the Rivian.

Data:
Both trucks have done the 1000 mile round trip a multitude of times.
Ford: 1.8-2.1mi/kWh over the trips depending on weather.
R1T on Conserve, slammed on low suspension settings: On sport wheels I get 2.4-2.6mi/kWh. I can get as high as 2.6-2.8mi/kWh on the ugly comfort wheels.

The usable battery capacity helps as well, I've gone 320 real world miles on the Rivian with miles to spare. Rivian's range projector is also much more accurate, helping with predictability. I usually beat what was displayed. On this one it says full charge is 335, but you can see on my current drive I'm actually projected to have a max range of 347 miles (229 miles dividied by .66 = 347). I ended up stopping after ~340mi actually driven with 12 indicated remaining.

I've never hit 300 real world miles on the Ford on that trip. Range wise, we're looking at a 20% difference in overall range.

Factor in the higher charging rate and it ends up being quite a bit of a difference. How much are we talking about in reality?

~15min in optimal conditions. ~1 hour in suboptimal conditions.

It's situational but there have been times where I've needed a 2nd stop in the Lightning where I made it in the R1T. But if both trucks stop the same amount of time, it's pretty negligible because of the charge curves. The Ford I charge to 80% and go. The R1T I charge to 70% and go. The end result is after the 1st leg it starts evening out.

I've even done the trip in a Tesla Model X 60D with a max charging speed of 120kW and real world range of about 130-150 miles. It requires 6x the amount of stops but because of the availability and consistency of the supercharger it was a total difference of about 30min...over the course of a 8-9 hour drive. Knowing your charge curve is extremely important as well as my first time on that trip took 12 hours. But even at 30min more it FEELS significantly worse due to the high number of stops.

Unfortunately, EVs need to be learned and it's all because of charging infrastructure, not range. Long post, hope it helps.

 

[simbaesq]

I have some real data for you so you don't need to speculate and potentially be disapointed.

My Lightning ER has a lifetime average of 2.1mi/kWh over 15,000 miles. My R1T has a lifetime average of 2.14mi/kWh over 10,000 miles (mix usage of All Terrains, Sport, and Comfort Wheels/Tires). Lifetime, we're talking about a 2% difference over the life of the vehicles. Small enough to account for any usage differences. (EPA rates them 3% apart in efficiency)

The key is how you're using it. Towing a trailer? The Ford is more efficient. Going on a long drive by yourself? Take the Rivian.

Data:
Both trucks have done the 1000 mile round trip a multitude of times.
Ford: 1.8-2.1mi/kWh over the trips depending on weather.
R1T on Conserve, slammed on low suspension settings: On sport wheels I get 2.4-2.6mi/kWh. I can get as high as 2.6-2.8mi/kWh on the ugly comfort wheels.

The usable battery capacity helps as well, I've gone 320 real world miles on the Rivian with miles to spare. Rivian's range projector is also much more accurate, helping with predictability. I usually beat what was displayed. On this one it says full charge is 335, but you can see on my current drive I'm actually projected to have a max range of 347 miles (229 miles dividied by .66 = 347). I ended up stopping after ~340mi actually driven with 12 indicated remaining.

I've never hit 300 real world miles on the Ford on that trip. Range wise, we're looking at a 20% difference in overall range.

Factor in the higher charging rate and it ends up being quite a bit of a difference. How much are we talking about in reality?

~15min in optimal conditions. ~1 hour in suboptimal conditions.

It's situational but there have been times where I've needed a 2nd stop in the Lightning where I made it in the R1T. But if both trucks stop the same amount of time, it's pretty negligible because of the charge curves. The Ford I charge to 80% and go. The R1T I charge to 70% and go. The end result is after the 1st leg it starts evening out.

I've even done the trip in a Tesla Model X 60D with a max charging speed of 120kW and real world range of about 130-150 miles. It requires 6x the amount of stops but because of the availability and consistency of the supercharger it was a total difference of about 30min...over the course of a 8-9 hour drive. Knowing your charge curve is extremely important as well as my first time on that trip took 12 hours. But even at 30min more it FEELS significantly worse due to the high number of stops.

Unfortunately, EVs need to be learned and it's all because of charging infrastructure, not range. Long post, hope it helps.

This is quad motor, I'm assuming?

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