Range Without Payload?

[beatle]

I think the 300 mile estimate may be a a bit optimistic given the Rivian's results with a slightly larger (4 kwh) battery and slightly smaller projected frontal area. We'll have to see what differences in drivetrain efficiency amount to, but I'm hopeful! At least the MME seems to do well on its independent real world range tests.

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[greenne]

I think the 300 mile estimate may be a a bit optimistic given the Rivian's results with a slightly larger (4 kwh) battery and slightly smaller projected frontal area. We'll have to see what differences in drivetrain efficiency amount to, but I'm hopeful! At least the MME seems to do well on its independent real world range tests.

Under any other circumstance I would say the same thing, but Ford has been steady in their "300mi" statements and advertising. They do project a confidence that in most conditions you can easily get 300mi

plus,

Ford underestimated the range of the MME, even to the point of asking the EPA to put less range on the official sticker rating. Ford has trended conservative with their range estimates.

One of the only good things about being a 2023 reservation is I will get to see some of the range early adopters are getting in a variety of situations.

 

[RickLightning]

One of the only good things about being a 2023 reservation is I will get to see some of the range early adopters are getting in a variety of situations.

This ^^^

#2 - seeing actual payload stickers

#3 - not having to deal with the unforeseen problems that are going to occur, or finding out that the solution for those problems was inadequate. Example is the weakness in the current OTA update capability that should be ironed out by 2023. Or 2024...

 

[Yellow Buddy]

I think the 300 mile estimate may be a a bit optimistic given the Rivian's results with a slightly larger (4 kwh) battery and slightly smaller projected frontal area. We'll have to see what differences in drivetrain efficiency amount to, but I'm hopeful! At least the MME seems to do well on its independent real world range tests.

Tesla and Rivian both utilize actual pack size. There are 7776 pack cells in the R1T of the Samsung 2170 variety. I believe those cells are a rated 4753mAh @ 3.6V, that comes out to 133kWh. So based on the cell capacity, they're already overstating the battery pack capacity by saying it's 135kWh.

Then, there's overhead of the vehicle. Tesla as an example sold 75kWh models that really only had 68kWh usable capacity for driving the vehicle. For Rivian that usable capacity is closer to 125-128kWh. *As per https://insideevs.com/news/554265/rivian-r1t-r1s-charging-210kw/

Ford on the other hand keeps specifically stating usable capacity in advertising, 98kWh/131kWh respectively. That leads me to believe that range is based on those numbers and not the actual pack size. The pack itself is likely slightly higher and fits the underpromise, overdeliver method they had with the Mach-E as well.

 

[LightningShow]

If the Lightning ends up closer to 250mi (or maybe even 275) highway I might either wait a year for the Silverado OR take the Lightning and flip it in 12-18months when the silverado hits the street. (I have a "first minute" silverado reservation). I was late to the EV party with Ford so my Lightning reserve was mid June...not anticipating a Lightning delivery until mid 2023.

I don't think you're going to get much different from the Silverado. 400 mile range is going to cost you six figures. It won't even be available in the WT. I'm betting the base WT will have ~250 mi EPA range (good luck getting one) and will suffer from the same type of highway performance degradation that the F-150 might. It will probably cost you 20k to get over 300miles, and they might only allow that for fleets like Ford did in the WT. We'll have to wait and see what batteries they actually offer but if you think Chevy is going to offer something significantly different than Ford in terms of 'range per dollar' then you are going to be disappointed.

 

[vandy1981]

Under any other circumstance I would say the same thing, but Ford has been steady in their "300mi" statements and advertising. They do project a confidence that in most conditions you can easily get 300mi

They got a lot of bad PR when they overpromised efficiency with the C-Max hybrids and PHEVs back in the early 2010s. I doubt any consumers remember the saga, but I guarantee that Ford Corporate is thinking about this every time they advertise range and efficiency and probably skew towards the conservative size.

That said, Tesla consistently overpromises and underdelivers range and it doesn't seem to be hurting their business model.

 

[rdr854]

They got a lot of bad PR when they overpromised efficiency with the C-Max hybrids and PHEVs back in the early 2010s. I doubt any consumers remember the saga, but I guarantee that Ford Corporate is thinking about this every time they advertise range and efficiency and probably skew towards the conservative size.

That said, Tesla consistently overpromises and underdelivers range and it doesn't seem to be hurting their business model.

It also impacted the gen 2 Ford Fusion Hybrids. I received a $750 check from Ford because of that debacle even though I was beating the mileage listed on the window sticker.

 

[jefro]

If you have been watching Tesla prices then expect huge price jumps from every EV maker.

 

[LightningShow]

Welp, i guess that 1000 pound payload was worth about 20 miles (but only in the ER ?) . Based on the EPA figures and recent range testing on the Rivian, i think there’s a decent chance that the Lightning ER will do 300 miles on the highway with the 18/20” wheels. I can’t wait to do my own range test!

 

[sotek2345]

Welp, i guess that 1000 pound payload was worth about 20 miles (but only in the ER ?) . Based on the EPA figures and recent range testing on the Rivian, i think there’s a decent chance that the Lightning ER will do 300 miles on the highway with the 18/20” wheels. I can’t wait to do my own range test!

Depends what speed you drive on the highway. Under 70 - good change. Over 80 - not a prayer

 

[LightningShow]

Depends what speed you drive on the highway. Under 70 - good change. Over 80 - not a prayer

Yup. I want to do a 60mph and an 80 mph range test, since everyone will already be doing the 70mph. I tend to drive fast but, TBH, I don't mind driving slower in my Bolt to gain efficiency. I'll just set the cruise to 65mph and hang out in the right lane. In good conditions that gets me above 4 mi/kWh. EPA highway for the Bolt is equivalent to 3.7 mi/kWh and I get ~4.1 at 65 and ~4.5 at 60. The Lightning might not beat the EPA highway ratings by as much but *IF* it had the same percentage gain as my Bolt the Lightning range would be 320mi at 65mph and 350mi at 60mph.

 

[jefro]

I keep reading that epa cycle uses 80mph. But that is in a garage, not is a real world.

 

[beatle]

It is indoors on a dyno, and speeds are between 30-60mph for the highway test. Drag and weight are put into the equation after the dyno numbers.

This isn't the best article on it, but it's something:

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/08/18/how-does-epa-calculate-electric-car-range/

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