Sell Lightning and go back to gas pickup?

[sotek2345]

There was a time when a 500e was a few thousand bucks...now they're $8K!

The plan is for her to use it to go back and forth from college and her choices are in the 100 to 250 mile away range. Those early gen low range EVs won't cut it, especially in a Northeastern winter. With battery degradation and cold weather range reduction, we would want something with 200+ mile range (when new) and DC fast charge capability. You can't touch that in the $5k to $8k price range that we are willing to spend on a first car.

Sponsored

 

[Pjlightning]

I'd have to be really impressed with one. I have about 5,200 miles on mine over the past 3-ish months. Very much like it.

Drove my girlfriend's RAV-4 this weekend and it was.......weird. I'm having the Lightning wrapped next week and am getting a loaner. I'll have to go to gas stations and stuff for a few days. NOT looking forward to it.

This winter will be a test of my dedication. Snow tires on in November and we'll see how it does in snow, and what hit the range will take. I'm already seeing a little hit driving with the heater and/or seats/heated steering wheel usage on the few cold mornings we've had.

I saw a gorgeous ice white Tacoma a the dealer last week. Sometimes I think about it.

Yep, the winter season will be the true test ….

Winter will be the deal breaker for me….
so far the ER Lariat already cuts it close on round trips to Boston From Hartford. That’s in good weather.

if cold cuts the range in half and I can’t get to where I’m going and back without a lot of planning and stopping, that’ll be the end of the Lightning for me.

I just don’t have the time to mess around with too much range anxiety, especially in bad weather.

I’ll miss the Lightning and It’s a dream to drive, but If the cold makes it impractical, I’ll have to step back into an ICE, begrudgingly……until they get the Range improved, or the charging networks come a LONG way from where they stand today.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

As my delivery is coming close, I’m starting to get tons of push back from my family and significant other saying I’m making the wrong decision, and I will regret not having gas because of the range.

Being told that this isn’t a family vehicle and “good luck getting to “x””. It’s really weird, but it’s pushing me to look at ICE F-150s again.

While looking, similar lariat builds are within a few thousand to more expensive than the lightning after the credits.

Im so conflicted right now. To be fair, it has really taken out the joy I had in getting the lightning. Now I’m just bummed.

*Scroll to the bottom if you don't want story time.

I have a family. It's one of those with car seats, booster seats, sippy cups, snack cups, extra clothes bags, strollers, etc. too. We family so hard that an Audi Q5 was too small for us, so we went into a Toyota Sienna. Now THAT is how you family, especially for long distances. It soaks up 10, 12, 15, 20 hour drives without a worry in the world.

We traded that ultimate family cruiser, and it's 17mpg for a Tesla Model S...ok that's a lie...we wanted to trade it in for the S. We even got the rear facing seats so it could fit 7. But to your point, 218 miles of rated range wasn't enough. So I kept the Sienna - and even went and paid to software unlock the range to 259 miles.

A month went by..then two when I realized, wait. We don't drive the Sienna anymore. In fact it sat so long w/o driving it that the battery was dead when I went to start it. A third month...and I sold it and bought myself a Model X with 200 miles of range, and then upgraded that one to another Model X with 237 miles of range. Both the Model S and Model X have been pulling family duty X. for over 100,000 miles each now and the one I sold had a tick under 80,000.

They've been to Disney. They've been to Canada. They've been skiing. They've been hiking. They took two 75lb dogs to the vet. They took us to hot air balloon festivals. We've gone cross country to weddings. Towed a dream car from 4 states over home. Went 600 miles with an enclosed trail to pickup and help clean up for an estate...that's when I realized. The Model X wasn't enough. I needed a bed.

Enter the F-150L. I have the Pro. 230 miles of range. In one month, it has done 2000 miles of family-ing. My R1T has done another 1000 miles within one week of family-ing. (The Ford does it better). It's been to the grocery store, to the beach, to sports practice, to music lessons, on a weekend trip, out for dinner, ice cream, full day of Saturday chores & errands, to the dump, to Home Depot, to Tractor Supply, to the orchard for apple picking.

The SR F-150L so far has not left me wondering if I have enough. The closest was sitting at ~37 miles of range left and I thought to myself - do I want to plug in at the EA for $0.35/kWh? Or do I think I can make it the roughly 25 miles home? I decided to try to make it home and made it with 7 miles - (3%)to spare.

Do I think it can family? Yes, yes I do. Do I think there are situations it won't work? Yes. If you're consistently driving 5+ hours in one stretch, a SR will not work for you. If you're consistently towing 3+ hours in one stretch, a SR will not work for you. With an ER, I would double those tolerances.

To further hammer it home, I will be driving roughly 550 miles in a week. A trip I've done regularly for work, here's how it stacks up with fueling included:

Gas truck: 8 hr 35 min trip
Tesla Model S 75D: 8hr 38 min trip (~250 miles range)
Rivian R1T: 8 hr 56 min trip (~314 miles range)
Ford F-150L SR: 11 hr 12 min trip (~230 miles range)

*Could vary between 30-60 min depending on traffic conditions.

In ideal conditions, the biggest differences are charger availability and charging rate right now. A ER F-150L I would expect to be right in line with my Rivian and we're talking 20 minute difference over 8 hours. That 20 minute difference is easily a kid suddenly going "I need to potty!"

This whole range anxiety (nowadays) is just that...anxiety. It's mostly in our heads. I get range anxiety in my Teslas when I see miles instead of % left. The same goes in the Ford. But in the Rivian the reverse, seeing % instead of miles remaining gives me anxiety and it's just a display!

Anyways..hope this helps.

TLDR: The F-150L is an awesome family car. Your family is being silly. Go for it and don't look back.

PS: ~300,000 miles of gas savings. Using gas EPA of 20MPG and F-150Ls 68 MPGe, that is roughly $32,000 in fuel savings at $3/gallon.

 

[SmokingtheMeats]

*Scroll to the bottom if you don't want story time.

I have a family. It's one of those with car seats, booster seats, sippy cups, snack cups, extra clothes bags, strollers, etc. too. We family so hard that an Audi Q5 was too small for us, so we went into a Toyota Sienna. Now THAT is how you family, especially for long distances. It soaks up 10, 12, 15, 20 hour drives without a worry in the world.

We traded that ultimate family cruiser, and it's 17mpg for a Tesla Model S...ok that's a lie...we wanted to trade it in for the S. We even got the rear facing seats so it could fit 7. But to your point, 218 miles of rated range wasn't enough. So I kept the Sienna - and even went and paid to software unlock the range to 259 miles.

A month went by..then two when I realized, wait. We don't drive the Sienna anymore. In fact it sat so long w/o driving it that the battery was dead when I went to start it. A third month...and I sold it and bought myself a Model X with 200 miles of range, and then upgraded that one to another Model X with 237 miles of range. Both the Model S and Model X have been pulling family duty X. for over 100,000 miles each now and the one I sold had a tick under 80,000.

They've been to Disney. They've been to Canada. They've been skiing. They've been hiking. They took two 75lb dogs to the vet. They took us to hot air balloon festivals. We've gone cross country to weddings. Towed a dream car from 4 states over home. Went 600 miles with an enclosed trail to pickup and help clean up for an estate...that's when I realized. The Model X wasn't enough. I needed a bed.

Enter the F-150L. I have the Pro. 230 miles of range. In one month, it has done 2000 miles of family-ing. My R1T has done another 1000 miles within one week of family-ing. (The Ford does it better). It's been to the grocery store, to the beach, to sports practice, to music lessons, on a weekend trip, out for dinner, ice cream, full day of Saturday chores & errands, to the dump, to Home Depot, to Tractor Supply, to the orchard for apple picking.

The SR F-150L so far has not left me wondering if I have enough. The closest was sitting at ~37 miles of range left and I thought to myself - do I want to plug in at the EA for $0.35/kWh? Or do I think I can make it the roughly 25 miles home? I decided to try to make it home and made it with 7 miles - (3%)to spare.

Do I think it can family? Yes, yes I do. Do I think there are situations it won't work? Yes. If you're consistently driving 5+ hours in one stretch, a SR will not work for you. If you're consistently towing 3+ hours in one stretch, a SR will not work for you. With an ER, I would double those tolerances.

To further hammer it home, I will be driving roughly 550 miles in a week. A trip I've done regularly for work, here's how it stacks up with fueling included:

Gas truck: 8 hr 35 min trip
Tesla Model S 75D: 8hr 38 min trip (~250 miles range)
Rivian R1T: 8 hr 56 min trip (~314 miles range)
Ford F-150L SR: 11 hr 12 min trip (~230 miles range)

*Could vary between 30-60 min depending on traffic conditions.

In ideal conditions, the biggest differences are charger availability and charging rate right now. A ER F-150L I would expect to be right in line with my Rivian and we're talking 20 minute difference over 8 hours. That 20 minute difference is easily a kid suddenly going "I need to potty!"

This whole range anxiety (nowadays) is just that...anxiety. It's mostly in our heads. I get range anxiety in my Teslas when I see miles instead of % left. The same goes in the Ford. But in the Rivian the reverse, seeing % instead of miles remaining gives me anxiety and it's just a display!

Anyways..hope this helps.

TLDR: The F-150L is an awesome family car. Your family is being silly. Go for it and don't look back.

PS: ~300,000 miles of gas savings. Using gas EPA of 20MPG and F-150Ls 68 MPGe, that is roughly $32,000 in fuel savings at $3/gallon.

Thank you for this. While I get what you're saying here, I don't plan to ever have a vehicle for 300k miles. My current truck at 131k is the most I've ever had and it's 12 years old. Same token, if it's 15k in fuel savings over the life of the truck, and I can buy a new ICE for 64k with a similar build, the cost difference in the end is a lot closer than savings.

 

[metroshot]

maybe the real question should be, would you sell your lightning if ford built an F-150 plug in hybrid with around 50 miles EV range?

My wife would love a Ford Lightning or Mustang PHEV - even with the '23 MME incoming.

She is stuck on a PHEV and currently has been driving my Honda Clarity PHEV and loves it.

She doesn't have to change her driving style, turn down climate controls, regen, coast, brake lightly, accelerate gently, etc...

Knowing the 1.5L ICE will take over when charge is gone (50 miles), she loves the fact that her range is about 400+ miles.

For her, it's more difficult to teach her how to change her ICE driving style.

She doesn't even check the fuel tank, tires, oil, fluids every month - I have to do that.

So I can see why some people are not ready for a full BEV....

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Thank you for this. While I get what you're saying here, I don't plan to ever have a vehicle for 300k miles. My current truck at 131k is the most I've ever had and it's 12 years old. Same token, if it's 15k in fuel savings over the life of the truck, and I can buy a new ICE for 64k with a similar build, the cost difference in the end is a lot closer than savings.

That’s exactly right, that’s why it’s not a primary reason. There’s some use cases for it, but it was more to demonstrate in Fords case. The EV premium is essentially non-existent. It’s basically a wash between ICE and EV when all costs are considered, which is impressive and I’m sure intentional.

It sounds like you average in a month mileage wise what I do in 1-2 weeks. At 11,000 miles a year, I would guess a standard range would be more than enough for you to family around, even if you never had to use a DCFC.

 

[SmokingtheMeats]

That’s exactly right, that’s why it’s not a primary reason. There’s some use cases for it, but it was more to demonstrate in Fords case. The EV premium is essentially non-existent. It’s basically a wash between ICE and EV when all costs are considered, which is impressive and I’m sure intentional.

It sounds like you average in a month mileage wise what I do in 1-2 weeks. At 11,000 miles a year, I would guess a standard range would be more than enough for you to family around, even if you never had to use a DCFC.

Since I've moved to working from home, my daily driving has dropped dramatically, yes. With that said, I still make a couple big trips a year, like down to Hilton Head, or to Cape Cod, and Nashville later this year. I don't want an 8-12 hour trip to be extended by 2-3 hours to be honest. It's a lot to consider right now for me.

 

[VTbuckeye]

*Scroll to the bottom if you don't want story time.

I have a family. It's one of those with car seats, booster seats, sippy cups, snack cups, extra clothes bags, strollers, etc. too. We family so hard that an Audi Q5 was too small for us, so we went into a Toyota Sienna. Now THAT is how you family, especially for long distances. It soaks up 10, 12, 15, 20 hour drives without a worry in the world.

We traded that ultimate family cruiser, and it's 17mpg for a Tesla Model S...ok that's a lie...we wanted to trade it in for the S. We even got the rear facing seats so it could fit 7. But to your point, 218 miles of rated range wasn't enough. So I kept the Sienna - and even went and paid to software unlock the range to 259 miles.

A month went by..then two when I realized, wait. We don't drive the Sienna anymore. In fact it sat so long w/o driving it that the battery was dead when I went to start it. A third month...and I sold it and bought myself a Model X with 200 miles of range, and then upgraded that one to another Model X with 237 miles of range. Both the Model S and Model X have been pulling family duty X. for over 100,000 miles each now and the one I sold had a tick under 80,000.

They've been to Disney. They've been to Canada. They've been skiing. They've been hiking. They took two 75lb dogs to the vet. They took us to hot air balloon festivals. We've gone cross country to weddings. Towed a dream car from 4 states over home. Went 600 miles with an enclosed trail to pickup and help clean up for an estate...that's when I realized. The Model X wasn't enough. I needed a bed.

Enter the F-150L. I have the Pro. 230 miles of range. In one month, it has done 2000 miles of family-ing. My R1T has done another 1000 miles within one week of family-ing. (The Ford does it better). It's been to the grocery store, to the beach, to sports practice, to music lessons, on a weekend trip, out for dinner, ice cream, full day of Saturday chores & errands, to the dump, to Home Depot, to Tractor Supply, to the orchard for apple picking.

The SR F-150L so far has not left me wondering if I have enough. The closest was sitting at ~37 miles of range left and I thought to myself - do I want to plug in at the EA for $0.35/kWh? Or do I think I can make it the roughly 25 miles home? I decided to try to make it home and made it with 7 miles - (3%)to spare.

Do I think it can family? Yes, yes I do. Do I think there are situations it won't work? Yes. If you're consistently driving 5+ hours in one stretch, a SR will not work for you. If you're consistently towing 3+ hours in one stretch, a SR will not work for you. With an ER, I would double those tolerances.

To further hammer it home, I will be driving roughly 550 miles in a week. A trip I've done regularly for work, here's how it stacks up with fueling included:

Gas truck: 8 hr 35 min trip
Tesla Model S 75D: 8hr 38 min trip (~250 miles range)
Rivian R1T: 8 hr 56 min trip (~314 miles range)
Ford F-150L SR: 11 hr 12 min trip (~230 miles range)

*Could vary between 30-60 min depending on traffic conditions.

In ideal conditions, the biggest differences are charger availability and charging rate right now. A ER F-150L I would expect to be right in line with my Rivian and we're talking 20 minute difference over 8 hours. That 20 minute difference is easily a kid suddenly going "I need to potty!"

This whole range anxiety (nowadays) is just that...anxiety. It's mostly in our heads. I get range anxiety in my Teslas when I see miles instead of % left. The same goes in the Ford. But in the Rivian the reverse, seeing % instead of miles remaining gives me anxiety and it's just a display!

Anyways..hope this helps.

TLDR: The F-150L is an awesome family car. Your family is being silly. Go for it and don't look back.

PS: ~300,000 miles of gas savings. Using gas EPA of 20MPG and F-150Ls 68 MPGe, that is roughly $32,000 in fuel savings at $3/gallon.

Thanks for sharing! More story time. We have been a low mileage 3 car, 2 driver household for a while. In 2013 we had an f150, mazda5 and added a Chevy volt. The f150 immediately became the least driven vehicle (rusted rotors filling the tank 4 times a year ..) and the volt the most driven. 2016 mazda5 became a Volvo xc90 phev. Truck still not driven much (but still used for truck stuff lees than 1k miles per year). The f150 had a turbo problem and I replaced it with a 2017 Tacoma in Feb 2018. In March 2019 the volt became a bolt. We were having gas anxiety (why use gas when there is power in the battery. Damn car, you are a half mile from home, why are you starting now just because it is 14F outside). I had 9 percent fuel dilution in the oil in the xc90 this spring due to short engine run times. The bolt got most of our local family miles (never did DCFC on the car), even though the Volvo is more comfortable. Bolt was repurchased by GM last year, but we replaced it with a Volvo xc40 EV in September. I continued to drive the bolt while waiting for the repurchase to be completed. The xc90 never moved from its garage space for 2 months. The Tacoma continued it's 200ish miles per month.
My wife wants to keep the xc90 phev for trips and as a backup car, but I have no idea how much it will actually be used once we are a 2 car EV household. I think that we could do it with our two EVs and using the truck for trips. If only the Volvo was only worth 10k, then the opportunity cost of keeping it would be smaller than the 30k value. Our kids are 10 and 12, so not yet ready to drive themselves and I'm not planning on handing over 400+hp cars to new drivers.
Only one of our drives in the xc90 would have been really bad in an EV. We were driving home from my inlaws in ohio to Vermont after Christmas 2016. There was a snow storm and we wanted to avoid i90 through NY. We drove i86 instead. I70 may have also been an option. If we were in a model x there would not have been a convenient supercharger scheme to get through in that weather. Cold+distance+snow (slower driving with increased rolling resistance) are the worst case situations for EV driving. Should we keep an ice backup? Should we go all in on EV? I guess they both have their places.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Since I've moved to working from home, my daily driving has dropped dramatically, yes. With that said, I still make a couple big trips a year, like down to Hilton Head, or to Cape Cod, and Nashville later this year. I don't want an 8-12 hour trip to be extended by 2-3 hours to be honest. It's a lot to consider right now for me.

Yea which unfortunately in the SR it would. In the ER it’s much more manageable, at least until the charging network gets built out

 

[Beans]

I don’t have the option to plug in every night living in the city and having to park on the street 95% of the time. Charging often will be a challenge.

If this is the case, and I were you, I'd pass on the lightning. I love my lighting but you will have range anxiety if you can't charge every night. The first two months I had to charge on 110v at home and 6kW at work. It was terrible having to plan everything out and think so much about how many miles I could travel. With the 80 amp charger I think about it much less. My use case is 80 mile round-trips to work, and for that the lighting is perfect.

When anyone asks me about long trips, I tell them if you take several, it's not the vehicle for you. I know many dispute this, but where I live the infrastructure just isn't there and it's way too stressful. I had a trip just this week where I needed to charge twice, one charger that should have been a 150kw wouldn't work, after a call to the charge operator we got it to work, but only at 50kW. Makes for a stressful trip when your other option is to charge for 4 hours to get home.

We have a second vehicle for long trips so no thought about getting rid of the lighting, but as much as I love the lighting, if this was my only vehicle I'd consider gas until the technology advances more.

 

[Commercial Sales Ford]

I have to say, I'm conflicted about selling my gas truck. I have a 2021 F150 Lariat. 502A option package, power running boards, Blucruise, 36 gallon tank, B&O Unleashed and underseat storage. My Lightning Lariat has a moonroof I don't want and an inferior sound system, in the sense that it isn't "Unleashed" and also without the power running boards. It would cost me $48k to buy it out at lease end. It would sticker at $72k to replace it with a 2023 optioned the same.

This truck is a dream to drive. Best vehicle I've ever owned. Makes me wonder if I'm making a mistake.

Just traded my lighting in with 3k miles on a loaded 502A Hybird, I miss the drive of the lighting but nothing else.

 

[Pjlightning]

Just traded my lighting in with 3k miles on a loaded 502A Hybird, I miss the drive of the lighting but nothing else.

I would miss the frunk big-time …..
but otherwise might agree with what you had to do here too.
I may end up being in The same situation soon.

 

[kbuicker]

T'aint no way in hell I'm going back. I've been in a loaner SUV now for almost two weeks, and it fargin sucks! I've had to fill up with gas three times, and that is something I DO NOT MISS. And, driving something with a transmission again, feels so antiquated! All the shifts and crap that go with it... and this annoying engine on/off crap, you have to be kidding me!

 

[sotek2345]

If this is the case, and I were you, I'd pass on the lightning. I love my lighting but you will have range anxiety if you can't charge every night. The first two months I had to charge on 110v at home and 6kW at work. It was terrible having to plan everything out and think so much about how many miles I could travel. With the 80 amp charger I think about it much less. My use case is 80 mile round-trips to work, and for that the lighting is perfect.

When anyone asks me about long trips, I tell them if you take several, it's not the vehicle for you. I know many dispute this, but where I live the infrastructure just isn't there and it's way too stressful. I had a trip just this week where I needed to charge twice, one charger that should have been a 150kw wouldn't work, after a call to the charge operator we got it to work, but only at 50kW. Makes for a stressful trip when your other option is to charge for 4 hours to get home.

We have a second vehicle for long trips so no thought about getting rid of the lighting, but as much as I love the lighting, if this was my only vehicle I'd consider gas until the technology advances more.

I would argue your issue is infrastructure, not technology. In the Northeast we have no issues traveling long range with an EV and no issues with charger availability or reliabiliy.

The good news is that NEVI should take care of this for the vast majority of Americans over the next few years.

 

[FordLightningMan]

If this is the case, and I were you, I'd pass on the lightning. I love my lighting but you will have range anxiety if you can't charge every night. The first two months I had to charge on 110v at home and 6kW at work. It was terrible having to plan everything out and think so much about how many miles I could travel. With the 80 amp charger I think about it much less. My use case is 80 mile round-trips to work, and for that the lighting is perfect.

When anyone asks me about long trips, I tell them if you take several, it's not the vehicle for you. I know many dispute this, but where I live the infrastructure just isn't there and it's way too stressful. I had a trip just this week where I needed to charge twice, one charger that should have been a 150kw wouldn't work, after a call to the charge operator we got it to work, but only at 50kW. Makes for a stressful trip when your other option is to charge for 4 hours to get home.

We have a second vehicle for long trips so no thought about getting rid of the lighting, but as much as I love the lighting, if this was my only vehicle I'd consider gas until the technology advances more.

I go on two or three road trips a year. I just got back from a 2,700 mile 9 day trip from Buffalo, NY to Fargo, ND and back. I had several days of 10 hour drives on this trip. I ended up renting a vehicle, I was given a Toyota 4Runner. The down side is it cost me $750 to rent + around $600 in gas. The good news is I avoided putting 2,700 miles of depreciation on my vehicle and the extra commute time.

I love EVs, as shown by no longer having a ICE vehicle in my garage. But I too agree that some situations are very unfriendly for current EV capabilities. If you paid me $500 to drive my SR Lightning on my last road trip, I would've turned down the offer, it would've been miserable.

For the 48 weeks a year I'm not on a road trip, I love my vehicles. Thankfully rental cars solve the 4 weeks I need something else.

Sponsored