Towing With An Electric Truck - Is It Cheaper Than Gas? Rivian R1T vs Ford F-150 PowerBoost

[Mr. Flibble]

Out of Spec Reviews did a great comparison of the Rivian R1T vs. The Ford F150 Powerboost while towing a 7000lbs trailer over 57.5 Miles. This is a very in-depth test.

The conclusions are pretty interesting, and surprising. Good odds the Lightning will have similar results.

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[TRP]

I just watched another of his vids where they compared weight vs bad aerodynamics with no weight. Bad aero was a huge hit above the weight, in fact, it did worse than this vid towing 7400#

Aero is your friend for sure

 

[RickLightning]

Love the way he parked to be able to charge. In the real world, you're going to have to unhook the trailer, charge, and then reconnect.

Also the amount of time involved in charging is going to be a huge hit unless the trip is short. We just drove over 600 miles with the Mach-E, only charging 3 times. We spent just a hair over 2 hours charging, which added 18% in time to the trip.

 

[SteveP150]

Love the way he parked to be able to charge. In the real world, you're going to have to unhook the trailer, charge, and then reconnect.

Also the amount of time involved in charging is going to be a huge hit unless the trip is short. We just drove over 600 miles with the Mach-E, only charging 3 times. We spent just a hair over 2 hours charging, which added 18% in time to the trip.

This ^^^. Not a lot of pull-through chargers out there. And even when there are, you will still need to be willing to spend a pretty fair chunk of time sitting.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

This ^^^. Not a lot of pull-through chargers out there. And even when there are, you will still need to be willing to spend a pretty fair chunk of time sitting.

I think if you are towing a long way with a lightning, that this would pretty much be a requirement:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34277725/ford-f-150-range-extender-ev-pickup-patent/

 

[minirx7]

I watched this video. I am not surprised. I decided to take a long trip with our Model S with my family of 5 (normally the trip car ist he F150). Drove from toronto to sudbury and the temperatures were in the -15 Ceslius.

Let me put it this way, youtube makes it seem SO seamless to drive an EV long distances. My model S has a stated range of 650km'ish.. we struggled and range anxiety and charger anxiety is very real even with a tesla.

1. Charging past 80% is slow as crap, so really your usuable range on long trips is 80% of stated.
2. At least it was a tesla, and at the half way point we arrived at 17% and the charger was charing at 1000km/h
3. Got to sudbury and the charger was 1/4 the speed at the tesla supercharge. Also the lack there of other chargers and most were level 2 with rediculous prices to cahrge.

I was hoping i could get the lightning to replace my F150 while towing my RV, but forget it. I cant even imagine driving long distances with the Lightning wihtout towing, when i was totally not comfortable with my Model S . Sticking with GAS and this video literaly cemented it for me

 

[GregBC]

Love the way he parked to be able to charge. In the real world, you're going to have to unhook the trailer, charge, and then reconnect.

Also the amount of time involved in charging is going to be a huge hit unless the trip is short. We just drove over 600 miles with the Mach-E, only charging 3 times. We spent just a hair over 2 hours charging, which added 18% in time to the trip.

I can't find the UTube vids, but some folks have compared ICE vs Tesla vs other EV on a long road-trip and the 'other EV' was definitely the slowest, mostly because of the charging network. How was the network for you? Vids from >1 year ago reflected pretty poorly on the Electrify America (or whatever its called) network out in Western US.

What was super interesting was how close the ICE and Tesla were - the editors tried to keep it as apples-to-apples as possible and they even avoided charging at the hotel (it was an overnight trip) which would have brought the EV closer to the ICE. So for example, I recall they allotted some time for the ICE driver to eat (something quick, but NOT eating in the car like I often do, lol). 600 mi is pretty tough to do in one big go - I wouldn't mind at least a couple leg-stretch sessions throughout, so maybe up to 1 hour would seem not out-of-bounds for refueling/food/coffee/pee/etc.

Sorry, this is getting a bit off-topic, lol! I'd still be nervous on a longer EV trip personally, especially to more remote areas, but I think as chargers improve/multiply, it'll just adjust how people travel. And as I recall (not with a lot of happiness, mind you!), driving with toddlers pretty much MANDATES stops more frequently than desired, lol!
For the EV trucks, however, I do predict challenges for quite some time when towing. Alas, the drive-thru layout of gas stations isn't as space efficient as 'parking lot' style for most EV chargers, so I don't see that changing in the near-term.

 

[vandy1981]

I can't find the UTube vids, but some folks have compared ICE vs Tesla vs other EV on a long road-trip and the 'other EV' was definitely the slowest, mostly because of the charging network. How was the network for you? Vids from >1 year ago reflected pretty poorly on the Electrify America (or whatever its called) network out in Western US.

I think you're referring to the MKBHD video. It's a great example of what happens when you plan an EV trip with absolutely no planning, but isn't representative of how most EV owners travel.

Non-Tesla charging networks have their problems (less so every day), but the people driving the Mach-E were completely clueless.

I don't have a lot of respect for MKBHD's take on EVs, especially this video. Alex on Autos and Out of Spec are much better sources for objective EV reviews.

 

[beatle]

I watched this video. I am not surprised. I decided to take a long trip with our Model S with my family of 5 (normally the trip car ist he F150). Drove from toronto to sudbury and the temperatures were in the -15 Ceslius.

Let me put it this way, youtube makes it seem SO seamless to drive an EV long distances. My model S has a stated range of 650km'ish.. we struggled and range anxiety and charger anxiety is very real even with a tesla.

1. Charging past 80% is slow as crap, so really your usuable range on long trips is 80% of stated.
2. At least it was a tesla, and at the half way point we arrived at 17% and the charger was charing at 1000km/h
3. Got to sudbury and the charger was 1/4 the speed at the tesla supercharge. Also the lack there of other chargers and most were level 2 with rediculous prices to cahrge.

I was hoping i could get the lightning to replace my F150 while towing my RV, but forget it. I cant even imagine driving long distances with the Lightning wihtout towing, when i was totally not comfortable with my Model S . Sticking with GAS and this video literaly cemented it for me

With a 2021 LR Model S, you still had better effective range than I do with my P85D. I only have 60% of your range, and any range anxiety I've had has been self-inflicted. You should have been able to make your one-way trip with a single charge in Perry Sound.

On road trips I start the day with a full charge, but I think I've only supercharged over 80% 3 times, or 10% of all charging stops. 2 of those times were because I was stopping for a meal and I didn't feel like moving the car before I finished eating; I didn't need the extra range. Charging more frequently from 10-50% will make road tripping much faster.

 

[RickLightning]

Ford has changed the charging curve so that from 80 to 90% is 44kW (on the Mach-E), and 90+ is 34kW or so. Used to be 14kW from 80% up.

As to charging more often, but charging less, that's not always going to be a winner for two reasons.

First, the time spent getting on, and off, the highway needs to be taken into account. That can be as much as 10 minutes each way, turning a 20 minute charging stop into 40.

Second, if one has to maneuver or unhook a trailer...

I choose to charge more and stop less when I stop for the first reason.

 

[Mr. Flibble]

One thing I think this video shows really well is that if you need to tow often, then an EV truck is (currently) probably not for you. If Ford goes ahead with the range extender, I expect this opinion to change, as having a gas engine disguised as a toolbox adding power back to the truck probably gives a fair boost to the range.

This won't change our outlook on the Lightning though. After all, there are a lot of F150's in my neighbourhood, and you almost never see them towing anything. The truth is, most people use them as commuting vehicles where I live. We will be doing the same for 99% of our driving.

The upshots (at least for us) of the F150 over our Diesel Grand Cherokee (which can tow for long ranges) is that it is cheaper to operate, has more storage, and has more than enough range for our day-to-day and weekend excursions, except perhaps, maybe once a year.

Realistically, if you are someone who hauls RV's for a few months/weeks of the year, or needs to haul anything else, the Lighting probably isn't a good choice.

I think it will still meet the needs of 99% of the people around us though, in this area, especially given just how dirt cheap power is here. (About 11 cents per Kwh IIRC.)

 

[minirx7]

Sound.

With a 2021 LR Model S, you still had better effective range than I do with my P85D. I only have 60% of your range, and any range anxiety I've had has been self-inflicted. You should have been able to make your one-way trip with a single charge in Perry Sound.

On road trips I start the day with a full charge, but I think I've only supercharged over 80% 3 times, or 10% of all charging stops. 2 of those times were because I was stopping for a meal and I didn't feel like moving the car before I finished eating; I didn't need the extra range. Charging more frequently from 10-50% will make road tripping much faster.

I think it was a combination of cold weather, full passengers and trunk, and driving at around average 120km/h. Defintiely not as comfortable as just fueling up in my F150 and easily exceeding the range of my Model S on 1 tank (vs 80% battery).

I decided the my tesla, is good for getting aroudn everywhere, but for road tripping especially RV, gas is just the ONLY way!!

I cannot imagine the Lightning will get even 50% wtih an RV on the back (especially mine at 7000 pounds). That would mean charging every 100miles for 40 mins every time not to mention if the charging network is remotely close to Tesla, and the idea of unhooking the RV every time to charge!

 

[Mr. Flibble]

I think it was a combination of cold weather, full passengers and trunk, and driving at around average 120km/h. Defintiely not as comfortable as just fueling up in my F150 and easily exceeding the range of my Model S on 1 tank (vs 80% battery).

I decided the my tesla, is good for getting aroudn everywhere, but for road tripping especially RV, gas is just the ONLY way!!

I cannot imagine the Lightning will get even 50% wtih an RV on the back (especially mine at 7000 pounds). That would mean charging every 100miles for 40 mins every time not to mention if the charging network is remotely close to Tesla, and the idea of unhooking the RV every time to charge!

Haven't you heard? RV's without onboard drive trains are old school:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/0...s-first-electric-trailer-the-estream-concept/

 

[ExCivilian]

I doubt many will want to see the price tag on that airstream.

When I googled, "most aerodynamic travel trailer" I found one company claiming that distinction. The trailers were between $250-300K :O

 

[Kev12345]

I think if you are towing a long way with a lightning, that this would pretty much be a requirement:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34277725/ford-f-150-range-extender-ev-pickup-patent/

this would be an awesome solution for those that don't tow often. could be a rental from the dealer.

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