Why 150 KW Fast Charging Limit ?

[Roy2001]

Because Ford is conservative. Heat pump is also missing.

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[jazzmanmonty]

I fast charged for the first time over the weekend. I was unable to get the cherger to go higher than 63 kw even though I was only person charging. Anyone have any tips how to charge at higher rate? Am I missing a setting?

 

[adoublee]

I fast charged for the first time over the weekend. I was unable to get the cherger to go higher than 63 kw even though I was only person charging. Anyone have any tips how to charge at higher rate? Am I missing a setting?

Sounds like a charger capability limitation. Was it a Chargepoint charger?

 

[ElectrifyCLT]

I fast charged for the first time over the weekend. I was unable to get the cherger to go higher than 63 kw even though I was only person charging. Anyone have any tips how to charge at higher rate? Am I missing a setting?

If the ambient temps were in a normal range, this sounds like an issue with the EVSE (the charge delivery equipment).

Unfortunately, most DCFC out there are poor at communicating when they are the reason for rate limiting. This can occur when there are upstream issues in transformers, or a temp sensor in the unit is bad, or the cable cooling is disabled for whatever reason.

When you hear people talk about the public charging networks being unreliable, this is what they’re referring to.

 

[jazzmanmonty]

Sounds like a charger capability limitation. Was it a Chargepoint charger?

Yes, it said 62.5-150kw. My understanding was that if one EV charging you will get full speed, if two EVs then charge rate falls to 62.5. but i guess it's just 62.5 per charger regardless.

 

[Crilly]

All ev’s take about 45 minutes to an hour to charge or they well get hurt.

 

[vandy1981]

Rivian is trying to coax out the last little bit but their AUC is still pretty much the same as the Lightning.

I think the Lightning's thermal management is much more robust than the Rivian's (especially in ones equipped with Max Tow) so I'm hopeful that they will be able to improve the AUC.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I've not visited a single Chargpoint 125kw 'shared' set of units(and that's 6 at least) that allowed the Lightning more than 62.5kwh ... no one can say why, unless we are misunderstanding the nomenclature around the term 'shared'... which may mean, by Chargpoint standards, simply that the electrical infrastructure that brings the power to the two units is a 'shared' architecture, so that it's a lower-cost installation for the buyer, not that it 'shares' the power between the two units. Oh well.

 

[vandy1981]

Yes, it said 62.5-150kw. My understanding was that if one EV charging you will get full speed, if two EVs then charge rate falls to 62.5. but i guess it's just 62.5 per charger regardless.

Most of the new Chargepoint "shared" chargers work this way:

"Each station is capable of 62.5 kW output, and two stations can pair together automatically to offer even higher power (80 kW to 400V-battery cars, 125 kW to 800V-battery cars)."

 

[data003]

I've not visited a single Chargpoint 125kw 'shared' set of units(and that's 6 at least) that allowed the Lightning more than 62.5kwh ... no one can say why, unless we are misunderstanding the nomenclature around the term 'shared'... which may mean, by Chargpoint standards, simply that the electrical infrastructure that brings the power to the two units is a 'shared' architecture, so that it's a lower-cost installation for the buyer, not that it 'shares' the power between the two units. Oh well.

They do share the 125kW but each station is limited to 200A regardless of the voltage. The max I’ve gotten on one of those is 69-78kW. It does slowly increase over the duration of the charging session as the voltage of the battery pack increases (which the math backs up!).

 

[RickLightning]

Because Ford is conservative. Heat pump is also missing.

Consumer Reports just released an article indicating that in cold winter temps, there is no advantage.

 

[adoublee]

Yes, it said 62.5-150kw. My understanding was that if one EV charging you will get full speed, if two EVs then charge rate falls to 62.5. but i guess it's just 62.5 per charger regardless.

That would be the message they would like you to take away. What they aren't so up front about is that their cables on those units are rated for 200A which becomes your pinch point. If the Lightning battery pack is at say 360V at 25% SOC, you will only get 200A x 360V = 72kW.

 

[sotek2345]

Consumer Reports just released an article indicating that in cold winter temps, there is no advantage.

Saw that too. Seems like heat pumps have a very small range (~35F-45F or so) where they offer an improvement. Seems like a lot of extra hardware / expense for not much benefit.

 

[ExCivilian]

Saw that too. Seems like heat pumps have a very small range (~35F-45F or so) where they offer an improvement. Seems like a lot of extra hardware / expense for not much benefit.

I've been trying to explain this to people for *years*.

Anyone who has used a heat pump already knows this, even if they didn't apply it to EVs. Traditional places for heat pumps in the US: A/Cs in the desert, pool heating, and (I hear) places that get cold...not frozen. Low and slow is how they operate. Basically turn it on and leave it running.

Based on many decades of listening to people gripe about their A/Cs, I'd venture a guess that if the vents aren't blowing 40F in 100F temps it's not working and similarly if they're not blowing 80F in 20F temps it's also not working. A heat pump will do neither, at least not for several hours, so probably a no go in the US from the manufacturers' perspectives.

 

[Fryballin]

That isn't an excuse for Ford, I think the Lightning should be capable of at least 250KW, and maybe it is! They may just need more time to work out the curve and battery cooling logic and all the wiring and onboard charger capacity is there.

The truck limitation (assuming FORD allowed the absolute maximum rate the truck could accept) comes down to the battery voltage (assume 400v, but its actually less, like 385v I think) and the maximum amperage of the charging station. I think the max amperage offered at DC fast chargers is 500 AMP, so

400v X 500 AMPs = 200 KW. That would be the theoretical max the truck could accept and actually slight less if you did 385v X 500 amps.

Regardless, what matters most is charging curve, and even compared to 800v vehicles, the lightnings charging curve from 10-80% is very comparable to Rivian and the Hummer EV, so probably spend less than 10 extra minutes at a charger on average compared to the ideal chargers the other trucks may offer.

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