If you are over the income limits (150/300k) of the new bill and haven't gotten your truck....

[Simpso57]

It sounds like we need a signed purchase order before Biden signs the bill, or we will not receive the $7,500 tax credit. Biden is expected to sign in the next week or two:

https://electrek.co/2022/08/07/senate-improves-ev-tax-credit-in-largest-climate-bill-ever/

My build week is this week, and I am over the limit, so I think I need that signed purchase order asap. There is also a question of whether Ford will even qualify since there are strict requirements that parts be sourced in USA, which most manufacturers currently don't have.

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[greenne]

It sounds like we need a signed purchase order before Biden signs the bill, or we will not receive the $7,500 tax credit. Biden is expected to sign in the next week or two:

https://electrek.co/2022/08/07/senate-improves-ev-tax-credit-in-largest-climate-bill-ever/

My build week is this week, and I am over the limit, so I think I need that signed purchase order asap. There is also a question of whether Ford will even qualify since there are strict requirements that parts be sourced in USA, which most manufacturers currently don't have.

I *think* the guidance refers to a binding contract. Since you ordered online, that should count as a contract since you placed a deposit. Obviously consult your tax professional but that's what I plan to use in case of an audit.

Also-- from what I'm reading the only thing that goes into effect at bill signing is N American assembly portion-- everything else goes into effect beginning on Jan 1, 2023.

I also think you are safe unless delay if you take delivery before Jan 1, 2023

" (Update: This article previously said that the credit would remain unchanged this year, but while much of the bill takes effect next year, the domestic assembly requirement goes into effect immediately upon enactment of the bill, so foreign-made EVs will need a signed purchase order before that time in order to qualify for the current credit) "

 

[Tyler Durden]

have we established whether or not we're grandfathered into the old credit (certainly all of MY2022)?

From the Electrek article, all Fords seem safe:

" Update: This article previously said that the credit would remain unchanged this year, but while much of the bill takes effect next year, the domestic assembly requirement goes into effect immediately upon enactment of the bill, so foreign-made EVs will need a signed purchase order before that time in order to qualify for the current credit "

 

[FordLightningMan]

Does the "purchase preliminary buyers order," which is signed by the manager at the dealership and has final purchase price count as a purchase order? Or does the term "non-binding" on the document make it not count?

For many people buying these $80k trucks, I assume the income limit is passed. I'm thinking many of us who were counting their $7,500 as a sure thing, are now going to be out of luck.

 

[Roy2001]

have we established whether or not we're grandfathered into the old credit (certainly all of MY2022)?

From the Electrek article, all Fords seem safe:

" Update: This article previously said that the credit would remain unchanged this year, but while much of the bill takes effect next year, the domestic assembly requirement goes into effect immediately upon enactment of the bill, so foreign-made EVs will need a signed purchase order before that time in order to qualify for the current credit "

That would exclude MME which is assembled in Mexico?

 

[Tyler Durden]

That would exclude MME which is assembled in Mexico?

whoops, maybe so, I shouldn't have said "all" Fords, but certainly the LF150L seems safe (we'll get the "old" credit)

 

[Simpso57]

Short answer: Merely reserving/ordering the vehicle will NOT QUALIFY UNDER THE "OLD" EV TAX CREDIT.

Ok I read the relevant text of the bill. I believe this is the relevant part for us (Starting at page 402):

TRANSITION RULE.—Solely for purposes of the 19 application of section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code 20 of 1986, in the case of a taxpayer that—
(1) after December 31, 2021, and before the date of enactment of this Act, purchased, or entered into a written binding contract to purchase, a new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as in effect on the day before the date of enactment of this Act), and

2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the date of enactment of this Act, such taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner, as the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Secretary’s delegate, may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act.

I pulled up the Ford Reservation Terms and Conditions here, which says in part (for Mach-E but assume they are the same):

By completing the Reservation Process, you are not ordering or purchasing a vehicle. The Reservation Process allows you to configure a Vehicle and pay the Reservation Deposit (“Reservation Deposit”) to Ford. Participation in the Program does not guarantee you vehicle delivery. You must contact a Dealer to discuss final transaction pricing, arrange any necessary financing, and complete your purchase of the Vehicle.

Maybe the order of the vehicle is different? Found those terms and it still is not a "purchase":

By completing the Order Process, you are not purchasing a vehicle. The Order Process allows you to configure a Vehicle and pay the Order Deposit (“Order Deposit”) directly to an authorized Ford Dealer (“Dealer”). By paying an Order Deposit, you are agreeing to the Dealer’s selling price for your selected vehicle, which may differ from the MSRP.

 

[Amps]

It would be nice if dealers could put a binding addendum to the order with an additional deposit. This works for trucks stickered or built or shipped. The additional deposit could serve as a forfeiture penalty if the truck is not accepted by the orderer.

 

[bryan995]

My XLT SR is on the train right now Estimated Delivery on the 11th.

Would suck to lose the credit - may even consider rejecting the delivery if it becomes 100% clear that it would not be allowed.

 

[Simpso57]

It would be nice if dealers could put a binding addendum to the order with an additional deposit. This works for trucks stickered or built or shipped. The additional deposit could serve as a forfeiture penalty if the truck is not accepted by the orderer.

Looks like that is exactly what Fisker is doing: converting refundable deposits into non-refundable deposits, thereby making it "binding": https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/08/20220808-fisker.html

The order terms and conditions say "You must contact your Dealer to cancel your Order and request a refund of your Order Deposit. If your Order is cancelled (by you or the Dealer), the Order Deposit will be refunded pursuant to the Dealer’s refund policy. Order Deposit refund policies vary by Dealer. Please ask your Dealer for their refund policy before you place your Order."

So perhaps if our dealers say the deposit is non-refundable we are good?

 

[merek]

I think you could maybe argue that an order (not a reservation) is binding. Realistically, I don't think anyone taking delivery in 2022 would be questioned. It says it needs to be binding, Ford doesn't explicitly say deposits are even refundable, and I don't know that you would need a deposit for it to be binding regardless.

That being said, I asked my dealer if they can draft something up. I think all it needs to be is "I agree to purchase this vehicle", and counter signed. I don't think it has to be much more than that. I have not heard back.

 

[Sdgolfer]

It still has to go to the House, potentially back to the senate for reconciliation and signed by Biden. The House comes back on Friday so we have a week or more until this is signed into law.
Without knowing what will happen in the House, this is all speculation at this point.

I need to research but if this transition rule stays in does that mean it’s based on 2021 income? Would be tricky for some buyers if they are close to the limit and receive variable comp like sales incentives / Christmas bonuses.

 

[FordLightningMan]

I just called my dealer and asked if I can sign something that's a binding order. They said it shouldn't be an issue, but they are having a meeting with the GM tomorrow to discuss. With MME assembled in Mexico, I said you may want to consider this change for any anticipated 2022 deliveries just to be safe, or else there will be a lot of disappointed people.

...but they may want people to walk, because then they can add ADM. This new bill is the golden ticket.

 

[Simpso57]

It still has to go to the House, potentially back to the senate for reconciliation and signed by Biden. The House comes back on Friday so we have a week or more until this is signed into law.
Without knowing what will happen in the House, this is all speculation at this point.

I need to research but if this transition rule stays in does that mean it’s based on 2021 income? Would be tricky for some buyers if they are close to the limit and receive variable comp like sales incentives / Christmas bonuses.

I believe it looks at the lesser of "such taxable year" or "preceding taxable year" modified adjusted gross income..... could be wrong.

 

[Sdgolfer]

I believe it looks at the lesser of "such taxable year" or "preceding taxable year" modified adjusted gross income..... could be wrong.

That’s what I assumed but will try to confirm once the bill is signed into law. I think I’ll qualify either way but never hurts to verify.

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