Ford’s F-150 Lightning is falling behind Tesla’s Cybertruck in deepening EV crisis

[Ventorum94]

I think larger battery packs are overrated. Charging speed is more important (and the Lightning isn’t great there). If you’re truly road tripping, a bigger battery pack only gets you further for the first leg of the trip. And if range is cut in half during the winter, then so is the range advantage of the larger battery pack.

Right now the Silverado outpaces the Lightning in both regards, but an ER or SR Lightning with Silverado charging speeds would be a bigger upgrade than a Silverado sized battery.

It would seem that every size battery pack could have significantly faster DCFC, if the pack could be divided into two equal (400v architecture) modules, coupled in parallel for driving, but in series for charging (higher voltage for charging, resulting in more kW for the same acceptable level of Amps). This switching from parallel coupling to series is the magic that Silverado uses, I believe, for fast charging of that humongous battery pack.

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[Oafy44]

On 25 degree days I feel a lot different than today when it was 75 in Georgia. 2.5 plus today with a level and 60 lbs tires on the corners seems just fine on my lariat ER

now in a few months when GM is offering $15k off then I might be wondering.

second /3rd year model of GM will be interesting. That will be the crossroads when GM can prove their set up is formidable and Ford will be hopefully not screwing up the rollout of next generation lightning.

 

[WaterboyNorCal]

I think larger battery packs are overrated. Charging speed is more important (and the Lightning isn’t great there). If you’re truly road tripping, a bigger battery pack only gets you further for the first leg of the trip. And if range is cut in half during the winter, then so is the range advantage of the larger battery pack.

Right now the Silverado outpaces the Lightning in both regards, but an ER or SR Lightning with Silverado charging speeds would be a bigger upgrade than a Silverado sized battery.

This is exactly it. A 33% larger battery pack, at the time I bought my XLT, I would have had to spend almost $12,000 more to get an ER, and for something that would only add value for me a few times a year, and be wasted 360+ days a year, made no sense, for me (and I logged 29k miles in my first year). If my budget was bigger, probably still wouldn’t have gotten the ER- I would rather save the $12k towards my next vehicle purchase 8-10 years down the road. Charging infrastructure is what we need (more DCFC along highways), and technology that shortens DCFC times (800v is one). A 200 kWh battery pack (Silverado, I’m looking at you) doesn’t make sense for most people’s use cases, though of course it does for some.

 

[rdr854]

Going back to the original topic at hand . . . , my felling is that the Lightning is NOT falling behind or otherwise a failure. All of the BEV pick ups have their strong suites and use cases - what ever those may be for the Paterson that bought it.

For me, the Lightning checks all the bases that I need for functionality and travel. I’ve only had range anxiety twice in 20K miles (18 months of ownership) and only once was my fault. The first was where EA pulled a charge station complex down for replacement 30 minutes before I got there and the other was two weeks ago when I decided that leaving with 80% SOC would be sufficient for a trip that I always leave with 100% SOC and come back with approx. 35% SOC.

If I was looking for a new truck, I would consider the Silverado LT EV, but think I would probably end up with the Lightning Flash or Lariat. While not perfect, I think it’s the better value. For me, the Cyber Truck is just too weird for me with the way the interior is set up and the space utilization. I will stay away from the polarizing looks.

 

[lipnorth]

Thank you for posting what is a giant waste of time article filled with incorrect assumptions and what i can only assume are made up "testimonials". There is no connection to Tesla at all in the article except "cybertruck sold more." big deal, they sold a few thousand more units in 2024 because it was the launch, we'll see how this year plays out.

My favorite dumbass comment in the article is that Ford including the "$2000 charger" is a new thing to spur sales.

I bought my lightning in 2023 and Ford provided a Ford Charge station pro and I got rebates for the install with the truck. How is that a new promotion?

 

[lipnorth]

That's simply not true. The Lightning advertises a range of 230 miles, everyone on this forum demands that you never charge the battery to above 90%. Off the rip, you are at 207 miles of range. Factor in weather conditions, driving speeds, and altitude changes, the lived range is 160-180. The truth is that the manufacturers are not clear with the reality of these vehicles, and the owners are so defensive that getting clarity doesn't generally arrive until you own. And that is where the disappointment really crystallizes. simply put these trucks are not what they advertise, and the word is getting out.

You are supposed to charge to 100% from time to time and its very ok right before a long trip.

 

[HOTAS]

Most every regret/complaint about the Lightning is rooted in someone who bought the standard range version, and (or) overpaid/ couldn’t afford it.

 

[lipnorth]

I hope the 2027 exists at all. I suspect the T3 will end up being the only pure EV truck from Ford and in the future the F-150 Lightning will become an EREV with a gas generator range extender similar to what Ram is doing.

Solid state batteries are set to be a Game Changer. Twice the capacity at 1/2 the size/weight and faster charging. Thats the next revolution. Also make it an EREV and you might have a vehicle that eliminates range anxiety.

 

[WHPHLightning]

You are supposed to charge to 100% from time to time and its very ok right before a long trip.

And when your battery degrades, the first thing they'll point at is the fact that you charged to 100%.

Furthermore, it's not only the off-the-bat 10% loss, the overall volatility of the range is a huge compromise vs. expectations.

Thus, the article we are discussing.

It's not a user problem, it's a manufacturer one; we are just holding their feet to the fire.

 

[lipnorth]

Not to be political, but we are also lacking political leadership and vision to solve our EV problems.

If we put solar in less 1/3 of the giant parking lots in the US, we would generate enough electricity to become green energy independent. That, combined with EV chargers everywhere we could make EVs practical for almost everybody.

France is currently mandating that exact solution. I know France might be a dirty word, but its a smart solution that would solve a lot of energy problems.

 

[WHPHLightning]

Most every regret/complaint about the Lightning is rooted in someone who bought the standard range version, and (or) overpaid/ couldn’t afford it.

I'll make your claim even cleaner; all regrets/complaints about the lightning are rooted in expectations set by the manufacturer not being met.

This strikes at the core of the issue. Owners have no problem spending what they spend if they receive what they were promised. Owners have no problem with the standard-range vehicle if it performs as promised.

The issue is, they didn't and it doesn't.

And the trope of "spend more money to solve your problem" or "complainers are broke" is honestly, quite lazy upon further inspection.

 

[lipnorth]

And when your battery degrades, the first thing they'll point at is the fact that you charged to 100%.

Furthermore, it's not only the off-the-bat 10% loss, the overall volatility of the range is a huge compromise vs. expectations.

Thus, the article we are discussing.

It's not a user problem, it's a manufacturer one; we are just holding their feet to the fire.

I own two EV‘s Want a lightning and the other a Kia. Both dealers have told me it is OK and recommended to charge to 100 from time to time.

 

[b.go]

Who cares? The cybertruck owners have a crappy looking truck that cuts your fingers off. I have a beautiful, stylish, useful, and functional pickup truck people like everywhere.

The CT looks like a dumpster on wheels. Meanwhile, everyone who rides in my Lightning raves about how stylish, hi-tech, powerful, and quiet it is. People I know who saw it for the first time tell me how much they love the looks. I get a lot of "wow, sweet truck". It's not that I need any of that from anyone, but there's no way someone who isn't a Musk fan-boy would choose the CT over the Lightning.

 

[lipnorth]

The CT looks like a dumpster on wheels. Meanwhile, everyone who rides in my Lightning raves about how stylish, hi-tech, powerful, and quiet it is. People I know who saw it for the first time tell me how much they love the looks. I get a lot of "wow, sweet truck". It's not that I need any of that from anyone, but there's no way someone who isn't a Musk fan-boy would choose the CT over the Lightning.

I’m in NO WAY a Musk fan (I think he’s Tesla’s biggest problem and should be shitcanned) but I still think CT vs LT is a personal preference. I have a good friend with a CT, and been in it many times. It is cool tech and fun to be in.

Its not for me, but I can’t spout vitrol that it’s shite either.

 

[StevenC56]

If you want a status symbol attention getter and you are a Musk fanboy, then the CT is for you. Otherwise, it's not practical compared to the other EV trucks currently in production and in the pipeline.

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