Reflections on the State of DCFC Charging in the US

[twodogsdennis]

Nice review and you give me hope as I prepare a charging station review on YouTube, twodogsdennis. Having recently completed a 2600-mile road trip from CO to Boring OR with Guide Dogs for the Blind puppies, I had an 11 out of 10 experience at 16 Tesla stations. It feels like the Tesla engineers actually road trip, talk to clients along the way, then go home to put their notes to good use. The Magic Docks are fantastic. My EA experience over the last 18 months and 12 with the Pro SR continues to be the same poor excuse for a charging location. Have the EA engineers ever taken a road trip? I had to call tech support during six of the eleven charging stops because the station wouldn't start with the app, which was necessary with the membership. On two stops, Support had to initiate a cold start because the station wouldn't listen to the call center. Planned 30-minute charge stops often turned into 45–60-minute stops at EA. I also find it a little strange that calling EA support was a lot like calling an overseas call center, even though they are in VA.

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[K6CCC]

The problem is that most L2 chargers are privately owned by a business that isn't in the charging business, and isn't paying a charging business company to oversee and maintain the chargers. I can't tell you how many times I contact a company to have them say "yes, we know, we have told the owners of the equipment but they haven't fixed it".

Yea, I know. I have run into that exact scenario on L2 chargers that I have reported as having a problem.

 

[PreservedSwine]

I'm glad you're enjoying it, but you couldn't pay me to take an interstate road trip in my SR. The supercharger prices are more expensive than fuel, have to drive 15-20 mph slower, and add roughly 50% time to a road trip (my typical south Florida to S Georgia goes from a 6 hour to a 9 hour trip)

Which great if you have the time... which at this point in my life, I just don't. I hope to get where you are someday.

keep on truckin'

 

[K6CCC]

The supercharger prices are more expensive than fuel,

You must have gotten really good gas milage to make that statement (or not using an reasonably equivalent pickup). At the time I traded in my 4x4 Dodge Ram 2500, I was spending about 38 cents per mile for gas. To have the SuperCharger cost that much per mile would be 90 - 95 cents per KWH. That's higher than I have EVER seen by quite a bit (without a Tesla subscription). With a Tesla subscription, a high price is just over half that. At the lowest subscription price, less than a third if that.

 

[CavRider]

I don’t travel as much os you do, Ralph, but I can say that in the ~50-60k miles of road trips with BEVs and hundreds of DCFC charging sessions, we’ve run into only a very few issues with any DCFC.

My experience is that brand-T is less reliable—per post—than any of the other brands, but because they put so many chargers in most stations, it’s almost invisible how poorly maintained their posts really are.

My total reliability index (plugs tried / successful charges) is about 50% with brand-T, about 80% with EA, and the others have too few stations where I travel to be statistically meaningful.

If EA would pull its head out of whatever dark space it stores it and put 20-100 plugs at its stations, I think its reputation would increase substantially.

I recently completed a 2,500 mile roundtrip from Minneapolis-ish to Greenville, SC and back by two distinct routes. I purchased the Tesla membership for the month and used Supercharger sites almost exclusively for the entire trip. I did not experience a single failure with any of them.

The single EA site I needed to use failed at the first post but did succeed at the second.

I just wish that every Supercharger site would also include a Buc-ee's

 

[CavRider]

You must have gotten really good gas milage to make that statement (or not using an reasonably equivalent pickup). At the time I traded in my 4x4 Dodge Ram 2500, I was spending about 38 cents per mile for gas. To have the SuperCharger cost that much per mile would be 90 - 95 cents per KWH. That's higher than I have EVER seen by quite a bit (without a Tesla subscription). With a Tesla subscription, a high price is just over half that. At the lowest subscription price, less than a third if that.

On my recent 2,500 mile road trip I recall seeing gas prices advertised mostly around $3.10 from MN to SC. At that price if I would have been piloting a vehicle that averaged 18.7 mpg the fuel cost would have been a push versus the charging cost for my Lightning using the Tesla membership pricing.

 

[hturnerfamily]

those who 'compare' DC Fast Charging costs, while traveling, to 'gas' prices for the 'same' trip in a gas vehicle, are missing to main point: we NEVER have to buy DC Fast Charging when we are NOT traveling - we only pay a fraction of gas prices, otherwise. Gas owners HAVE to pay the full price for fuel ALL THE TIME.

also, if nothing else, I've not had a single 'maintenance' costs in over 55,000 miles....
compare that to the typical gas vehicle for oil changes, time and trips for maintenance, etc.

 

[K6CCC]

On my recent 2,500 mile road trip I recall seeing gas prices advertised mostly around $3.10 from MN to SC.

I could only dream about gas prices that low. This is southern California and CostCo is around $4.00 and high priced stations are well over $5.00 per gallon (for the cheapest octane gas). My Dodge was averaging 10.8 mpg.

By comparison in the just under four months that I have had the Lightning, out of 93 charge sessions, 38 (41%) were at home at $0.24 per KWH, 41 (44%) were free. I have driven 6,567 miles and charged 2,872 KWH for a cost of $564.42 or an average of $0.197 per KWH. For the Dodge I was buying about $500 of gas per month. And I'm driving quite a bit more than I was in the Dodge.

 

[CavRider]

those who 'compare' DC Fast Charging costs, while traveling, to 'gas' prices for the 'same' trip in a gas vehicle, are missing to main point: we NEVER have to buy DC Fast Charging when we are NOT traveling - we only pay a fraction of gas prices, otherwise. Gas owners HAVE to pay the full price for fuel ALL THE TIME.

also, if nothing else, I've not had a single 'maintenance' costs in over 55,000 miles....
compare that to the typical gas vehicle for oil changes, time and trips for maintenance, etc.

Well comparing the cost of ICE fuel to EV fuel while traveling IS the main point of comparing the cost to travel. What we pay to charge at home is irrelevant since, by definition, we are not at home.

I am fully committed to the use of EV for >= 95% of our driving which is within fifty miles or so of home. But for trips exceeding ~200 one way or else into sparse DCFC areas (e.g. central to northern MN) I am going to leverage ICE. In addition to our two EV we also have an Escape Hybrid and an Expedition with a 3.5L EcoBoost. I have proven that I can average 22 mpg or better with that Expedition. At that rate it is cheaper to drive than the Lightning (using DCFC and at today's prevailing non-CA gas prices) based on fuel cost alone. Maintenance over time might even that out some. In any case it is a non factor. What IS a factor however is the ~700 mile range of that Expedition and the ubiquity of gas stations. So for my 2,500 trip recently completed rather than the 24 charging sessions I actually experienced I could have instead made AT MOST 5 refueling stops. More likely only 4. I'm retired so I can spare the time but then again, my time is a vanishingly small resource that becomes more precious by the day.

So, at the end of the day, while I absolutely love my Lightning and would not trade it I also will not use it to road trip more than 200 or so miles along an interstate corridor going forward. I am fortunate enough to have the Expedition option and I intend to leverage it. Horses for courses eh.

YMMV.

 

[Mal106]

Very similar situation. In this area gas is cheap enough that it always beats DCFC. I have a PHEV Niro that will save time and money on a road trip even when the first charge on the Ford is at home. The Lightning is more comfortable on the road and new enough that I still use it on road trips but over 250 mi, I really should use the Niro.

 

[Timeless Epoch]

Well comparing the cost of ICE fuel to EV fuel while traveling IS the main point of comparing the cost to travel. What we pay to charge at home is irrelevant since, by definition, we are not at home.

I am fully committed to the use of EV for >= 95% of our driving which is within fifty miles or so of home. But for trips exceeding ~200 one way or else into sparse DCFC areas (e.g. central to northern MN) I am going to leverage ICE. In addition to our two EV we also have an Escape Hybrid and an Expedition with a 3.5L EcoBoost. I have proven that I can average 22 mpg or better with that Expedition. At that rate it is cheaper to drive than the Lightning (using DCFC and at today's prevailing non-CA gas prices) based on fuel cost alone. Maintenance over time might even that out some. In any case it is a non factor. What IS a factor however is the ~700 mile range of that Expedition and the ubiquity of gas stations. So for my 2,500 trip recently completed rather than the 24 charging sessions I actually experienced I could have instead made AT MOST 5 refueling stops. More likely only 4. I'm retired so I can spare the time but then again, my time is a vanishingly small resource that becomes more precious by the day.

So, at the end of the day, while I absolutely love my Lightning and would not trade it I also will not use it to road trip more than 200 or so miles along an interstate corridor going forward. I am fortunate enough to have the Expedition option and I intend to leverage it. Horses for courses eh.

YMMV.

I’m mostly there with you.

I’ll tolerate 1 or 2 DCFC one way for a trip. But to be fair, I’m probably flying after that regardless of vehicle. ?

 

[CavRider]

I’m mostly there with you.

I’ll tolerate 1 or 2 DCFC one way for a trip. But to be fair, I’m probably flying after that regardless of vehicle. ?

Actually, that would have been the cheapest option BY FAR*. The downside of flying, which I have sworn off in retirement, is that you miss all of the "texture" that is found on the ground.


* considering I was the sole occupant of the Lightning during this trip

 

[Timeless Epoch]

Actually, that would have been the cheapest option BY FAR*. The downside of flying, which I have sworn off in retirement, is that you miss all of the "texture" that is found on the ground.


* considering I was the sole occupant of the Lightning during this trip

I’ll probably join you fully in my retirement. Until then, my freedom is handed out a week at a time.

One of my greatest memories is a 35 day road trip my family took out west (from Ohio) in the 80’s. I was 14 at the time. We had a conversion van and a pop-up. Woke up in a new place almost every day.

 

[21st Century Truck]

One of my greatest memories is a 35 day road trip my family took out west (from Ohio) in the 80’s. I was 14 at the time. We had a conversion van and a pop-up. Woke up in a new place almost every day.

Haha... I'm about to do the same from NYC to at least Western Colorado with (another) 14-year old nephew who's flying in next week for a 41-day Lightning camping adventure.

I did a six-week cross-continent trip in the Mach E with another 14-year old nephew two years ago. They've all lined up after that boy got home

 

[PreservedSwine]

You must have gotten really good gas milage to make that statement (or not using an reasonably equivalent pickup). At the time I traded in my 4x4 Dodge Ram 2500, I was spending about 38 cents per mile for gas. To have the SuperCharger cost that much per mile would be 90 - 95 cents per KWH. That's higher than I have EVER seen by quite a bit (without a Tesla subscription). With a Tesla subscription, a high price is just over half that. At the lowest subscription price, less than a third if that.

Not really that great. Our mid size suv get 27 mpg at 80 mph.
not a comparable vehicle, since I needed a truck, not another suv when I bought the lighting. It's not a close comparison using supercharger prices over 50 cents/kWhr. Gas is cheaper in my suv than my aerodynamic brick using electrons ?
Even my f250 diesel is cheaper than the lighting on road trips paying that premium for electrons, though at least they're in the same zip-code.

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