A good time to buy used????

[ReaperHWK]

Background here. I never owned an EV and I am looking to get a new daily driver truck to replace mine. My current daily beater is a 2006 F150 with 230k miles I bought new, I will probably give it to one of the kids to learn to drive with.

My use case for the lightning is comfort, luxury, Home Depot runs, and reliability. I know they can't tow well (I have a hellcat I race and tow a few times a year, it's 7000lb with trailer and I may tow it 500 miles each way sometimes to track events), so I have a 2026 Tahoe RST with the 6.2 motor I bought for the wife and for tows. So the lighting won't be doing that.

The reason I am even considering the lightning is that I see a few year old PLATINUMS for 40k, and they seem really loaded with cool features. I did some basic digging around and I read that the biggest problem I may face with a used EV is the battery replacement, it could cost 40k?!

Any opinions if buying a 2023 platinum for 40k is worth it now? They have about 50k miles at that price. I also am not sure if these trucks will depreciate another step down when the new hybrid F150's come out to replace them.

My mind is thinking that a lighting will become worthless as soon as the battery needs replaced because it will cost more than the truck. Battery says 10 years and 150k miles, so after that the truck is toast. Am I missing something?

Any thoughts on this? Other option is to buy a used gas F150 with the 5.0.

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[RickLightning]

Lightning...

Your digging was a waste of time - you're not going to be replacing a battery, nor would you be spending $40K doing so.

Battery warranty is 8 years / 100,000 miles.

Yes, you are missing a lot, and have some basic misunderstanding.

2023s have feature deletes.

They tow just fine. Charge every 100 - 125 miles.

Do you have the ability to put a 50amp circuit in your garage?

 

[Bushwood CC]

If you can home charge that’s a great price for a great truck that may last you for lots of years with little yearly maintenance. Battery degradation is proving to be much less than expected. When you would need to replace the battery it’ll go farther, charge faster, and cost a fraction of what they cost now.

 

[ReaperHWK]

Lightning...

Your digging was a waste of time - you're not going to be replacing a battery, nor would you be spending $40K doing so.

Battery warranty is 8 years / 100,000 miles.

Yes, you are missing a lot, and have some basic misunderstanding.

2023s have feature deletes.

They tow just fine. Charge every 100 - 125 miles.

Do you have the ability to put a 50amp circuit in your garage?

Lol. I'm not stopping to charge a lighting every 100 miles when a gas truck can do it in 3 tanks and take 5 min to fill up. That's what I'm saying it's not convenient to tow with an EV, I'm not wrong on that. I'd also have to make sure I can charge it every 100 miles and some places I go are in the middle of nowhere.

I had my last truck for 20 years and 230k miles, I'd need a battery if that was an EV for sure and that truck would have been junked. Google says an extended range battery replacement on a platinum is 40k. What is the real cost if I'm wrong?

I can install whatever I need in my house for charging, so yes I can install a fast charger.

Both sides of the coin on this, I can see either side. If the battery truly will last to 200k miles than this would be a no brainer I'd get the lightning. Or if an aftermarket made replacement batteries for half the cost....... But with an older lighting out of warranty my biggest issue is the battery to me. Everything else can be replaced for nominal costs.

I did do a search and there are companies that offer extended warranties on the batteries, I think it was 3k for 150k miles?

 

[RickLightning]

Lightning...

You shouldn't buy one.

You seem convinced (but you're wrong) that you'll need to buy a new battery if you drive 20 years and 230,000 miles. That's less likely than having to replace the engine on a gas truck.

You should stop using lousy sources. And today's cost (which is not $40,000) is irrelevant - you need the cost in say 15 years, if it failed. And they don't replace the battery, they replaced packets.

Which company offered an extended warranty on the high voltage battery in a Lightning? That would be news to this forum.

 

[MountainAlive]

The 100 - 150mi towing distance between charges sounds correct and for some people that can be a deal breaker. But for almost everything else, you can’t beat the Lightning in my opinion. It is a great time to buy used.

 

[K6CCC]

Battery replacements are the one of the EV Haters weapons. In reality, the battery will almost certainly last longer than the rest of the truck. Modern EV batteries are lasting longer than even the experts have been predicting. Granted that there are very few Lightnings in the 200K mile range, but in particular, there are plenty of Tesla cars that are, and they are giving the world a good look at how long a properly thermally managed battery will last. The picture is quite good.

For your use case since you have a quite suitable tow vehicle for your race car trailer, you don't need to use the Lightning for towing, so don't. Problem solved. For more local traffic, the Lightning will do just fine. Over time, you will likely expand what you are comfortable with doing with it. There are quite a few stories here on the forum of various long distance travel with Lightnings. I've written up a couple myself. Just got back from a just over 1K mile trip and have a around 3K mile trip planned this summer.

 

[ReaperHWK]

First off I'm not an "EV Hater" I'm talking facts of the situation and trying to have a conversation. I would buy an EV if it makes sense.

I don't think buying a new EV is a good idea because the depreciation is a bitch but after they bled out a bottom feeder like me would look.

Yes I know that you can replace single "packs" of the battery but eventually batteries all need reaplced, no battery will last forever. I keep my vehicels until they are beyond econimcal repair.

My gas 2006 F150 with a 5.4L has 230k miles like I said, and the engine has never been opened up for any repairs. Still doesn't burn a drop of oil as I use synthetic every 5k miles. Things like alternators, BATTERY, starters, hoses, belts, plugs, etc. All stuff I can replace myself for cheap.

The biggest repair it ever needed was a new transmission at 194k miles, that cost me 5k installed.

This is the EV Battery warranty I mentioned:
https://www.xcelerateauto.com/xcare...MImoK56bPKkwMVxXd_AB0IWQbxEAAYAyAAEgLh8_D_BwE

If I'm so clueless how do I know about this and you guys don't? lol


So can anyone tell me IF I need new batteries at 150k miles(so another 100k after I buy a used one with 50k miles on it), how much would that cost? Keep in mind it will take me 10 years to get to 150k miles so AGE will be the issue more than mileage. I keep hearing my 40k is inaccurate.

Can I hope there are Chinese batteries knockoffs by then?

 

[ReaperHWK]

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for...ABEgKMr_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&state=IL&zip=60601

 

[struckby]

Lol. I'm not stopping to charge a lighting every 100 miles when a gas truck can do it in 3 tanks and take 5 min to fill up. That's what I'm saying it's not convenient to tow with an EV, I'm not wrong on that. I'd also have to make sure I can charge it every 100 miles and some places I go are in the middle of nowhere.

I had my last truck for 20 years and 230k miles, I'd need a battery if that was an EV for sure and that truck would have been junked. Google says an extended range battery replacement on a platinum is 40k. What is the real cost if I'm wrong?

I can install whatever I need in my house for charging, so yes I can install a fast charger.

Both sides of the coin on this, I can see either side. If the battery truly will last to 200k miles than this would be a no brainer I'd get the lightning. Or if an aftermarket made replacement batteries for half the cost....... But with an older lighting out of warranty my biggest issue is the battery to me. Everything else can be replaced for nominal costs.

I did do a search and there are companies that offer extended warranties on the batteries, I think it was 3k for 150k miles?

The lightning battery has modules that can be replaced individually. Now they are $3000.00. The price of batteries show decrease over time especially if aftermarket suppliers make them. Also the newer battery technology hold more power for weight and size as improvements are made.

 

[ColonelPanicked]

Honestly man if you tow a lot to remote places and the charging situation doesn't appeal to you, I would not get one.

If the EREV turns out like I hope it does, it is gonna appeal to people with your needs. But it will be years before we see a used one for $40k.

 

[Joe.....Montana]

It sounds like a Lightning would fit your use scenario for a truck. You have a tow vehicle and are looking for a daily driver and occasional road tripper. The potential for a battery failure is real, albeit overblown by certain interests. Yes, every battery eventually needs to be replaced, but what SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH is showing, the HVB in EV's won't lose their useable capacity for 250,000+ miles. Now, could there be a catastrophic short that renders a module useless? Absolutely. Could a transmission go out at 20,000-250,000 miles? Absolutely. Consider ONE battery module as a transmission. How likely are you to need a full transmission build? How about two? Currently one battery module on a Lightning costs around $3,000. There are 9 total battery modules in a Lightning so IF all had to be replaced then you would be looking at $27,000.

 

[Newton]

There are three EV battery issues that get conflated: failure, degradation, and obsolescence. Following is based on my reading, i’m not a lithium battery expert.

Failures are fairly rare and are not inevitable in an old battery. Many first generation Leafs still have working batteries despite terrible thermal management and other early design issues. Batteries are rated in cycles which are full charge to discharge (but cumulative, 10 ten percent charge cycles is one full cycle). Unlike your iPhone an EV has a battery that is massively oversized for its daily use (for range) and it happens to work out that the predicted lifecycle of the battery adds up to more miles than you can reasonably expect to get from a vehicle. This is theory, some batteries fail due to manufacturing issues or bad luck. Most data is based on Teslas which show that as expected batteries tend to last at least as long as the useful life of the car. However, Tesla batteries are made differently than the pouch batteries used by Ford.

Degradation is inevitable with Lithium batteries, you will not have as much range at the end of your car’s life as you did when it was new. You lose more per year when the battery is new as the battery stabilizes somewhat as it gets older. The percentages involved are not huge but what deceives people is that the really old EVs of today started off with just barely enough range to get by. You will notice a 30% loss when your car started with a 60 mile range, but losing 30% of a 250 mile range won’t affect your daily driving much. So early model car may become essentially worthless even though tne battery is “good for its age” while a modern car will retain a useful 100+ mile range until it dies for other reasons.

Obsolescence is the real challenge to keeping an EV forever. Leafs used a different charging standard than the Lightning and it is becoming extremely difficult to find fast chargers for them and no reasonably priced adapters exist. The Lightning fast charges at a lower voltage than comparable vehicles that exist today and much more slowly than EVs that are being sold in China. At some point you are going to be the car hogging the charger for an unacceptable 45 minutes when everybody else can charge in 5. Chevy Bolts have this reputation now.

My other truck is a 1998 T-100 so I know about keeping vehicles forever. The problem with modern vehicles is that there is a lot of bespoke expensive parts for each model year. The taillights for the Lightning cost $2K and are unique to the Lightning. They will be hard to replace in 20 years and if they go bad the truck complains. That is going to be the challenge.

 

[ReaperHWK]

I'm going to test drive one soon, I drove a Tesla model 3 before and I hated the regen braking where it slows the car without the brakes. I'm used to just rolling like a gas vehicle.

I'll see how the lighting drives first and we'll go to step 2.......

 

[ReaperHWK]

Also, does the lightning have battery health monitors for each "pack" and can tell you the life left? I am not sure.

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