Ford's advanced EV-and-tech chief (Doug Field) to leave the company

[Shawnson]

I can't imagine a new buyer buying a Lightning when it has been discontinued.

sarcasm or do you mean existing inventory?

Sponsored

 

[RickLightning]

sarcasm or do you mean existing inventory?

I mean existing inventory. Who buys a brand new vehicle that has been discontinued, unless it's at a huge discount?

 

[jobofly79]

I mean existing inventory. Who buys a brand new vehicle that has been discontinued, unless it's at a huge discount?

Well technically we all bought a new vehicle that has been discontinued

 

[RickLightning]

Well technically we all bought a new vehicle that has been discontinued

Ask 100 people here if they would have even considered the purchase if the vehicle had been discontinued by Ford before they bought. I sure would not have.

 

[jobofly79]

Ask 100 people here if they would have even considered the purchase if the vehicle had been discontinued by Ford before they bought. I sure would not have.

I was just making a joke.

 

[IdaHome]

Here's the other thing that the press (and in fact most people) miss:

It isn't an either/or situation.

You can take the write-down in 2025 and still use the results of the investment in the future.

People read about the write-down and imagine Ford as wadding up and throwing out $19 billion in technical data reports, plans, and factories -- "Well, there's $19 billion down the drain". But that's not how it works. The write-down is a sign that Ford's management doesn't expect a return on these investments in the foreseeable future. But it doesn't exclude future use of them. Ford can (and undoubtedly does) keep everything that the investment bought, and could potentially use it all tomorrow -- without penalty -- to make products.

I understand what you’re saying And I hope I’m wrong. I’d love to be wrong because that would mean in 5 years there would be a new F-150 type of full size truck available for me to buy from Ford. It would be improved, better and would allow the F-150 (this time EV) to remain the best selling vehicle it currently is.

I just don’t think that’s true. That truck five years in the future happens only if they keep iterating/improving current development. Not by putting valuable IP (we love even our current trucks!) in a box and writing off the whole thing for short-term financial benefit. It doesn’t happen when you dismantle the cutting edge manufacturing facility, reduce R&D on a full-size truck, demand short-term 8% profit margins (guaranteeing lack of investment in the future), and even publicly stating you think the future is just small EVs not the truck itself. That’s where Chinese models excel. Or the Kias/Hyundai’s.

Again, I would be more than happy to celebrate being wrong 5 years from now when I buy that new truck. But I strongly fear that Ford’s actions over the last few months increase more than 10 fold the odds that if I want such a truck, I’ll be buying a BYD or something like that.

 

[djwildstar]

I just don’t think that’s true. That truck five years in the future happens only if they keep iterating/improving current development. Not by putting valuable IP (we love even our current trucks!) in a box and writing off the whole thing for short-term financial benefit. [...] I strongly fear that Ford’s actions over the last few months increase more than 10 fold the odds that if I want such a truck, I’ll be buying a BYD or something like that.

I unfortunately agree. As I wrote earlier in the thread, Ford's actions suggest that the company does not see EVs as significant part of their sales for the foreseeable future. If so, it makes sense to use the investment to reduce taxes now, because there is no guarantee of profits as far in the future as the amortization would otherwise extend. I can't speculate on what they do see as the future, since their stated strategy is to keep doing what they've been doing: build gas-powered F-150's at high profit margins.

 

[Shawnson]

I mean existing inventory. Who buys a brand new vehicle that has been discontinued, unless it's at a huge discount?

That’s a completely fair point and I agree. I’d have troubles buying last years model even at a large discount if the model just went through a refresh.

 

[CoolViper777]

But IMHO, the future is not ONLY EV, as a lot of people seem to claim. The near and even mid-future is a mix of different technologies. EV, Hybrid, and full gas/diesel vehicles all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Currently, EV's suck in very cold, or very hot weather, with big loss of range. They suck when towing and when far away from chargers. They suck when you don't have at home charging and/or solar or free or subsidized electricity at night, etc. They suck when trying to find and wait to charge. There are a LOT of negatives with EV's, just as there are a LOT of positives, same with ICE and even Hybrids.

I know people are putting their hopes on new battery technologies like sodium. Hoping they come out with a battery with 400 miles range, and minimum loss in cold or hot weather.

I unfortunately agree. As I wrote earlier in the thread, Ford's actions suggest that the company does not see EVs as significant part of their sales for the foreseeable future. If so, it makes sense to use the investment to reduce taxes now, because there is no guarantee of profits as far in the future as the amortization would otherwise extend. I can't speculate on what they do see as the future, since their stated strategy is to keep doing what they've been doing: build gas-powered F-150's at high profit margins.

 

[Shawnson]

That is the most absurd and comical use of the word “suck” that I have seen by someone who even remotely seems to know kind of what they are talking about. With the level of using the word “suck” you could easily say diesels suck in the cold because they don’t warm up. Or ICE vehicles suck in the cold because their efficiency is low until they warm up. Or ICE vehicles suck because you have no control over the price and supply of fuel. It’s just an absurd use of the term “suck”.

But IMHO, the future is not ONLY EV, as a lot of people seem to claim. The near and even mid-future is a mix of different technologies. EV, Hybrid, and full gas/diesel vehicles all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Currently, EV's suck in very cold, or very hot weather, with big loss of range. They suck when towing and when far away from chargers. They suck when you don't have at home charging and/or solar or free or subsidized electricity at night, etc. They suck when trying to find and wait to charge. There are a LOT of negatives with EV's, just as there are a LOT of positives, same with ICE and even Hybrids.

I know people are putting their hopes on new battery technologies like sodium. Hoping they come out with a battery with 400 miles range, and minimum loss in cold or hot weather.

 

[CoolViper777]

I'm not anti EV at all. But I realize the current shortcomings.

And yes, diesels do suck in the cold, that's why you have glow plugs to heat your block in cold climates

ICE engines heat up quite fast in general, unless you are living in Siberia or Alaska. So almost no one is worried about their MPG in the cold

As for ICE vehicles having no control over gas supply or prices, the same is true of EV's, unless you have solar/battery system (which is actually a very good selling point).

That is the most absurd and comical use of the word “suck” that I have seen by someone who even remotely seems to know kind of what they are talking about. With the level of using the word “suck” you could easily say diesels suck in the cold because they don’t warm up. Or ICE vehicles suck in the cold because their efficiency is low until they warm up. Or ICE vehicles suck because you have no control over the price and supply of fuel. It’s just an absurd use of the term “suck”.

 

[Shawnson]

I'm not anti EV at all. But I realize the current shortcomings.

And yes, diesels do suck in the cold, that's why you have glow plugs to heat your block in cold climates

ICE engines heat up quite fast in general, unless you are living in Siberia or Alaska. So almost no one is worried about their MPG in the cold

As for ICE vehicles having no control over gas supply or prices, the same is true of EV's, unless you have solar/battery system (which is actually a very good selling point).

I think you missed my point, it’s not that these point can not be valid, but the term “suck” is just throwing the whole argument out the window.

Also as someone who lives in Alberta, I find that EVs do not suck at all in the cold. They are actually fantastic, I’d take an EV over a ICE vehicle for cold weather driving any day. What is an issue is cold weather roadtrips since range is hampered. But I’ve only been inconvenienced by that about 3 times in the last 3 years to the point I actually had to change my behaviours to account for reduced range. And that living there it’s -25C a good chunk of the winter.

 

[Zprime29]

But IMHO, the future is not ONLY EV, as a lot of people seem to claim. The near and even mid-future is a mix of different technologies. EV, Hybrid, and full gas/diesel vehicles all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Currently, EV's suck in very cold, or very hot weather, with big loss of range. They suck when towing and when far away from chargers. They suck when you don't have at home charging and/or solar or free or subsidized electricity at night, etc. They suck when trying to find and wait to charge. There are a LOT of negatives with EV's, just as there are a LOT of positives, same with ICE and even Hybrids.

I know people are putting their hopes on new battery technologies like sodium. Hoping they come out with a battery with 400 miles range, and minimum loss in cold or hot weather.

I had no trouble hitting 240 miles of range with 20% to spare in 110F heat, 70-75MPH between Tucson and El Paso. I lose maybe 10% of my range when cranking the A/C and honestly, I think most of that is for the HVB. Using A/C right now (90's) I have no change in efficiency. Only when baking in the parking lot at 100+ do I see a slight drop. Nothing like a drop in range due to severe cold.

 

[Shawnson]

I had no trouble hitting 240 miles of range with 20% to spare in 110F heat, 70-75MPH between Tucson and El Paso. I lose maybe 10% of my range when cranking the A/C and honestly, I think most of that is for the HVB. Using A/C right now (90's) I have no change in efficiency. Only when baking in the parking lot at 100+ do I see a slight drop. Nothing like a drop in range due to severe cold.

And in the cold, yes there is a range drop, but I’d argue the experience is substantially more enjoyable than that in an ICE vehicle.

 

[CoolViper777]

That's encouraging, thanks for sharing that.

I had no trouble hitting 240 miles of range with 20% to spare in 110F heat, 70-75MPH between Tucson and El Paso. I lose maybe 10% of my range when cranking the A/C and honestly, I think most of that is for the HVB. Using A/C right now (90's) I have no change in efficiency. Only when baking in the parking lot at 100+ do I see a slight drop. Nothing like a drop in range due to severe cold.

Sponsored