BYD super fast charging with an interesting market comment

[Jseis]

https://www.wired.com/story/how-byd...and-it-might-not-matter-as-much-as-you-think/

The conundrum: If the majority of EV users charge from home…with occasional on-the-road charging..,how does the marketplace justify the expense of a super fast charging network?

None of us refine our own fuel, thus the “local gas station model” has been with us for over 100 years. Where I live, most locals had their own pasture-horses or used the steam train (fired by wood), or sailed in coastal waters. The arrival of gas autos about 1911 resulted in mom and pop pumps that quickly evolved into the service station type of fuel sales.

In some ways we are reinventing the past: Our two BEVs charge at home with very rare charging on the road. The need for serious power at a multiport super fast charger is also serious $$$ capital too. The stand by power charges are costly.

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[Tony Burgh]

The people avoiding BEV’s because of highway range and charging use that as a convenient excuse. If more BEV’s were on the road, then the ultra fast charging would be needed to alleviate congestion.
For my occasional road trips, 30 minutes at the Sheetz or Dunkin Donuts is not a problem. Tesla high speed is adequate.
But to win over the skeptics, ultra high speed chargers and BEV’s that can utilize them will be required.

 

[FloridaMan655321]

For my occasional road trips, 30 minutes at the Sheetz or Dunkin Donuts is not a problem. Tesla high speed is adequate.

The other aspect people never bring up is after driving 3 hours, don't you feel like stretching just a tad bit? When I had an ICE vehicle I always took a good 20 minutes when stopping just to really stretch my legs, use the bathroom, etc... I recently took a trip that I've taken with an ICE vehicle (over a 10 hour drive) and I'm not even sure I was that much slower with the Lightning, which is certainly not the fastest charging or most efficient vehicle out there.

 

[SunPowered]

Higher velocity charging would slash large, semi-truck scale battery charge times and make the BEV highway trucking sector more practical/ doable. For commercial shippers, time is money.

 

[Theredshift]

The people avoiding BEV’s because of highway range and charging use that as a convenient excuse. If more BEV’s were on the road, then the ultra fast charging would be needed to alleviate congestion.
For my occasional road trips, 30 minutes at the Sheetz or Dunkin Donuts is not a problem. Tesla high speed is adequate.
But to win over the skeptics, ultra high speed chargers and BEV’s that can utilize them will be required.

Here is something else to add to this. And i agree with you full tilt. What if all ultra fast worked like GOM (guess-o-meter) that's installed on all lightnings. Here's a shot of it working fully

 

[Firn]

300 miles driving and 20 minutes charging seems ideal, imo.

However that doesnt answer the problem for towing (which would be 150 miles and 30 minutes), big trucks, apartment dwellers, "whoops" situations, etc.

Right now the best real-world charging is about where it isn't bad at all, but now we need to bring all other situations up to that level.

 

[woodsman]

The people avoiding BEV’s because of highway range and charging use that as a convenient excuse. If more BEV’s were on the road, then the ultra fast charging would be needed to alleviate congestion.
For my occasional road trips, 30 minutes at the Sheetz or Dunkin Donuts is not a problem. Tesla high speed is adequate.
But to win over the skeptics, ultra high speed chargers and BEV’s that can utilize them will be required.

On a recent trip of a little over 100 miles in cold temps. I counted the convenience (gas stations) i went by 46. How many places to charge? Maybe 3, I don't know they are hidden on back streets and strip malls.
I am slowly Figuring out charging places for trips around the Midwest (reliable, Convenience, Food, Bathroom} I did stop at a convenience for coffee, but there was no charging available.

 

[ridgebackpilot]

None of us refine our own fuel,…

Actually some of us BEV owners do, since we have solar power systems to fuel our cars!

I agree with the author that true hyper-fast chargers would be nice, but more relevant for heavy-duty trucks than our cars, which we mostly charge at home.

 

[Jseis]

The community I was raised in (50’s-60’s-early 70’s) had a half dozen “gas stations” with single pump and two pump (regular and premium), a total of 10 pumps. The single pump stations were pre WW2 and typically in front of a post office-country store-old school garage. The two pump stations were Shell, Richfield, & 76.

Today we’ve ONE 16 pump independent station serving the same 10 square mile area.

Zero EV charging stations. All BEV owners charge from home.

An adjacent community 10 miles south has a similar history, evolving to three modern gas stations (Mobil, Chevron, independent) and lost 7 old school stations (garage-repair) and due to its stout hospitality infrastructure (hotel-motel-restaurant) has 18 L2 EV stations near hotel-motels.

Of note: No DCFC. None. We’re a destination 2nd home-hospitality area in general (evolved out of a fishing/shellfishing/farming/logging) thus no thru traffic, tennis shoe moms & commuters looking for BEV DCFC services. Thus L1-L2 works and it’d take a heck of a lot of BEVs to justify super fast charging.

Until Seattle-Portland areas grow BEV use to some significant level (15%-25%+?), the biz model for super fast chargers not happening. Plus those two urban areas are 120-180 miles away, pretty accessible one way by most BEVs. The typical kWh charged for the L2s ($.25-$.28 per kWh) fits the destination model.

The RV & boat towing model, BEVs serving the working contractor/RV set, still out of reach IF you’re driving beyond 100 miles of towing range & want your charge now.

 

[bryce]

Faster on-road charging, and reliable chargers, are a must. But faster at-home/destination charging would also be a key element to wider adoption.

Please correct me if I am wrong. In the US we are on a 110V home standard while Europe, with much wider EV adoption, is on a 220V home standard. So that will double the rate of charging, and makes the addition of an additional higher amperage circuit easier/cheaper. Being able to double the rate from 1kW to 2kW or greater at home/destination would greatly decrease range anxiety, as I know from my trips to parts of Oregon with little to no high-speed charging capabilities.

 

[struckby]

The other aspect people never bring up is after driving 3 hours, don't you feel like stretching just a tad bit? When I had an ICE vehicle I always took a good 20 minutes when stopping just to really stretch my legs, use the bathroom, etc... I recently took a trip that I've taken with an ICE vehicle (over a 10 hour drive) and I'm not even sure I was that much slower with the Lightning, which is certainly not the fastest charging or most efficient vehicle out there.

I never stretched my legs on road trips before. My goal was to get there as fast as possible. Now that I have had to stop and wait for a charge before going I much prefer to stretch my legs.

 

[Calvin H-C]

The other aspect people never bring up is after driving 3 hours, don't you feel like stretching just a tad bit? When I had an ICE vehicle I always took a good 20 minutes when stopping just to really stretch my legs, use the bathroom, etc...

Our typical road trips, ICE in the past and now BEV, usually had stops being dictated by the need to stretch or use a washroom, and sometimes to get a bite to eat.

These typically required about 30 minutes, but here's the difference between ICE and EV give or take a minute...

ICE required 5-8 minutes at the pump to top up and pay, either at the start or the end of the break (usually the end, since I would go ahead to move the car while everyone else finished up).

EV requires 3-4 minutes at the start of the break to plug in and start the charging, and another 3-4 minutes at the end to disconnect and move out.

That's where EVs are at now. I will add that a road trip in my 2017 FFE (160 km/100 mi rated range) requires more frequent stops with half primarily to charge, but that now seems like something from "the olden days".

 

[Calvin H-C]

Please correct me if I am wrong. In the US we are on a 110V home standard while Europe, with much wider EV adoption, is on a 220V home standard.

North America is on a 240V "split-phase" system (typically 220 to 240, depending on several factors), where the step-down transformer near one's home provides 240 volt with a centre tap. The centre tap is grounded at one's service disconnect and becomes the neutral. Most circuits are line-to-neutral which provides 120 volts.

However, higher power things can get 240 volts with a line-to-line circuit, which is what Level 2 charging uses.

The issue is whether one can add a 240 volt circuit easily and economically, or simply only have Level 1 charging from a 120 volt outlet.

 

[FloridaMan655321]

I am slowly Figuring out charging places for trips around the Midwest (reliable, Convenience, Food, Bathroom} I did stop at a convenience for coffee, but there was no charging available.

Upper Midwest is not ideal. I'll be traveling up there soon and planning is certainly required. You wouldn't think it, but the Southeast is actually quite nice. Florida being really impressive, but GA and the Carolinas are also easy to travel around. When I'm ready to charge I will have multiple options, which is obviously nice in case one area is busy.

 

[FloridaMan655321]

I never stretched my legs on road trips before. My goal was to get there as fast as possible. Now that I have had to stop and wait for a charge before going I much prefer to stretch my legs.

This was me in my 20s. Now I'm too old

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