F-150 Lightning Tows 10K Pounds Up Colorado's Super Ike Gauntlet on Coldest February Day in 123 Years

[Mr. Flibble]

128/.65=197

197/320=61.6% or 38.4% decrease in range due to towing.

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Sandy Munro was talking about this and said that the moment you start towing you knock a third off of your range. This is a big heavy non-aerodynamic box, so this sounds like it is in the right ballpark.

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[FlasherZ]

Tesla still limits regen to 75-80 kwh

Understood.

It still locks up the wheels in bad weather and is still amazingly effective at slowing down the vehicle on 6-8% downhill grades.

 

[Snakebitten]

Right and wrong. One of the first Lightning deliveries in Florida will almost never be driven without towing a 9,100 trailer. And it will pull away from the dealer on its first drive pulling that trailer. That's my deal with the dealer. They will fully charge the truck prior to delivery. I will tow my boat to the delivery with the current '21 KR PB. They get my trade ('21 PB at original MSRP back to them with 8,000 miles) IF the Lightning goes to 50% charge at 60 miles distance towing. If not, I keep both trucks.

If everytime I was to post I was required to include the percentage that YOU represent in F150 usage and expectations....... Well, I would simply resign to lurking only. ???

 

[vandy1981]

Unfortunately, in your attempt to be cleaver and cover for your little buddy you just proved my point that we don't know the context of the photo he is clinging to.

Better luck next time.

Hey buddy, I'm on your side. Not sure why anyone is getting worked up about data from a single time point that is without key contextual information.

If they are navigating a route using the onboard system, the range would be calculated based on topography of the rest of the route. Even if the truck is under power when the photo was taken, that doesn't mean that the rest of route isn't at a downward incline.

It would be crazy to expect less than 50% range reduction with all but the smallest trailers. The Out of Spec and TFL Rivian tests support this, albeit with variables that may be hard to generalize.

If you are worried about range with your trailer and have an order for MY22, I'd say that that there is zero risk in accepting delivery. If it doesn't work for your scenario, you unload it at the dealer for at least what you paid for it and the dealer bends over backwards to find you the truck you want....

 

[LightningShow]

When I take my Tesla Model S through the mountains, the regen capability exceeds even the steepest slope on the mountain drives we've taken and it feels odd but you have to maintain pressure on the accelerator or you slow down on the downhill. I sure hope the F-150 without trailer can accomplish the same, because it's a beautiful thing to watch the range climb up when you know everyone else is turning motion to heat with their brakes (and/or burning fuel via engine braking).

I'm unsure whether another 5 tons in a trailer pushing the truck down a mountain will be able to manage full regen, though.

Another aspect in which I'm interested is the control aspect of downhill in very bad rain/snow. In Tesla cars, I've had to set my regen to "low" in some particularly bad slushy weather, as letting off the accelerator completely can result in regen locking the wheels up. The computers have gotten better at preventing this, but it's another reason regen gets limited in bad weather.

if you watch TFLTruck’s video of the Rivian doing the Ike Gauntlet you’ll see what i mean. They get almost no regen on the downhill section. I think they’re towing 8,000 pounds. I don’t know if it was an issue with the truck or the trailering setup but it definitely didn’t work like it should.

 

[Griddlez]

You can see that the battery meter is not full, it is about 60-70% when the range is reading at 120 miles.

IMO that's actually really good.

 

[adoublee]

If you are worried about range with your trailer and have an order for MY22, I'd say that that there is zero risk in accepting delivery. If it doesn't work for your scenario, you unload it at the dealer for at least what you paid for it and the dealer bends over backwards to find you the truck you want....

For me, only a risk of running out of juice on a July 2022 multi-day trip away from interstate charging network that depends on campground level 2 recharges overnight (and some semi-rural low-kW DCFCing options)

 

[Mr. Flibble]

For me, only a risk of running out of juice on a July 2022 multi-day trip away from interstate charging network that depends on campground level 2 recharges overnight (and some semi-rural low-kW DCFCing options)

This risk is quickly decreasing.

To be sure, it is non-zero.

But I can say that when I started driving an EV in 2017, chargers were very hard to come by. Now, they are sprouting up so quickly you can't swing a dead cat without hitting one.

One of the things companies are starting to realize is that EV's need chargers. And with chargers, you remain parked at an area for a bit. So... if you are a place like Starbucks, it makes sense to install chargers to increase the amount of sales you get.

There are still a lot of dead areas (particularly in the North-Central areas, and wilds of New Mexico) but that won't be for much longer methinks.

 

[webspoke]

The numbers shown look good to me. Glad to see they are using full sized enclosed trailers to simulate the aero load - one looked like a 20'. My toughest towing job for this truck will be getting my 24' 8-9k enclosed to the local tracks (30mi and 85mi away). Looks like it may even handle the 85mi distance.

 

[webspoke]

Understood.

It still locks up the wheels in bad weather and is still amazingly effective at slowing down the vehicle on 6-8% downhill grades.

If the regen is spread over both axles/motors then it should be a non issue. Same thing happens in tow haul mode with exhaust brake in the HD diesel trucks. Use with caution in 2wd on slick surfaces.

 

[VTbuckeye]

If the regen is spread over both axles/motors then it should be a non issue. Same thing happens in tow haul mode with exhaust brake in the HD diesel trucks. Use with caution in 2wd on slick surfaces.

I was "experimenting" with our Volvo xc40 EV in the snow earlier this winter. The wheels will lock up briefly in slippery conditions with one pedal driving selected. However, it will operate ABS in one pedal mode so they don't stay locked up very long.
As for TFL and the Rivian going down the back side of the mountain it could be a Regen problem (exceeding the truck's capacity). It could also have been trailer brakes working harder than the truck brakes.

 

[LightningShow]

The downhill starts at 8:30. They gain 2% SOC on the downhill but when they turn around and take the same route up they lose 16%. The regen should be much closer to 16% on the downhill if the truck was recovering all of the available potential energy associated with the elevation.

 

[don.mullins]

Lets see.

98 degrees.
128 miles at ~70% charge
Motors clearly on power.

Yea its going downhill.

I am not so sure on the downhill part. This is the first I have seen of the instruments, but the motor Indicators appear to be in a coast - not power, but not charge. I would expect charging on a downhill especially with the trailer weight pushing as well.

 

[don.mullins]

128/.65=197

197/320=61.6% or 38.4% decrease in range due to towing.

That is better than I expected.

I see a real world of ~50% decrease in range pulling my 7600# TT with my Powerboost.

 

[vandy1981]

As for TFL and the Rivian going down the back side of the mountain it could be a Regen problem (exceeding the truck's capacity). It could also have been trailer brakes working harder than the truck brakes.

There is also aero drag and loss of efficiency in moving the energy from the motor to the battery pack. I don't want to watch the TFL video again, but I think they said they didn't need to use the brake pedal on the descent. The brake lights kicked in periodically anyway but that also happens when some EVs hit a regen deceleration threshold even without friction braking. I don't think anyone has shown whether the trailer brakes engage in that scenario.

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