Franklin battery system, V2L, via bed 240, same old ground fault issue, it would seem. Need help...

[Danface]

The main issue is that this is a hybrid battery/solar inverter and associated automatic transfer switch. There is no option for a switching neutral transfer. They are always going to be using the home's bonded neutral. The generator is feeding the transfer switch and battery inverter and isn't wired directly to the loads. Separately grounded systems is the only option.

Since there can only be one path to ground, I assume the ground would be switched when the system cutover?

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[chl]

The main issue is that this is a hybrid battery/solar inverter and associated automatic transfer switch. There is no option for a switching neutral transfer. They are always going to be using the home's bonded neutral. The generator is feeding the transfer switch and battery inverter and isn't wired directly to the loads. Separately grounded systems is the only option.

Yes I see, a separately derived system is needed, and the "hybrid battery/solar inverter and associated automatic transfer switch" would have to be switched out and the lightning switched in via another transfer switch to isolate the two systems.

The problem is the existing system can't accommodate a bonded external source such as the Lightning that can't be unbonded, so the ground loop created trips the GFCI. Some portable generators can be bonded and unbonded by design or by a modification to connect/disconnect the neutral from the chassis.

My understanding is the Lightning neutral is bonded to the chassis at the internal inverter so unbonding it is not easily done - I searched a while back and found no way to unbond the Lightning generator/inverter output.

 

[chl]

I did mine as shown in the marked up picture. I simply removed the ground wire jumper (circled in yellow) from the socket. I still left the other jumper that connects the front plate to the box. I then connected the home ground to the box ground (marked in green with arrow).
This allows the box to still be properly grounded to the house when there is no connection to a generator.
I placed the sticker on the outside saying that this has to be used with a bonded neutral generator.

The code says bonded generators (e.g., the Lightning) have to have a continuous equipment ground with the rest of the system so the above is not code.

The reason is when things go wrong (loose of disconnected wires, ground faults, etc.) the chassis of the bonded generator can have a potential voltage on it as much as 120V (in a 240V system) that will not trip the GFCI until someone touches the chassis and gets a shock. Also why bonded generators have to be earth grounded according to code.

Watch the video I posted above for further info.

 

[chl]

You need to take an ohm meter and figure out what that cord is doing to get from 4-wire to 3-wire. Chances are, both the N & G prongs go to the N on the 3-wire end. If so, that’s the problem.

Generally those adapters do not connect the neutral and only connect the hots and the ground.

For my garage 6-50R I used an adapter for the Ford Mobile Power Cord for a while and that's what it did - the FMPC does not use the neutral anyway so it worked fine.

I believe all adapters will have a ground for safety but not a neutral for 120V.

 

[chl]

Sorta on the topic of ProPower house hook-ups, I have a gas powered standby generator un-bonded and a transfer switch I have been using for the last decade during outages.

I want to use the Lightning so I bought a Generac 6853 transfer switch suitable for bonded generators, like the Lightning.

The thing is I did not want to completely unwire the other transfer switch, so this is a block diagram of what I came up with so I could have both transfer switches, no back-feeds, etc.

Essentially, the Generac feeds the old transfer switch from either the utility or the truck depending on the switch position, and the other transfer switch feeds the loads either the utility or truck out from the GEnerac switch OR form my old un-bonded generator depending on the switch position.

Easy peasy, lol.

By the way, in case you're wondering, the Generac by design will not switch to GEN position unless there is a generator connected supplying power.

Now, if some fool had both switches connected to generators at the same time AND the switches were both in the GEN position, the load would only be powered by the second generator, and because the neutrals would be connected together, the GFCI in the bonded generator should trip.

EDIT: also, with only on generator input box, impossible to hook two up at once anyway.

 

[hturnerfamily]

some feedback on my experiences with 'Ground Fault Error', or similar named fault, my Camper is a good example:

we travel quite a bit with our single-axle camper in tow...
we provide it a 20amp heavy-duty extension cord, via adapter(s), from the rear bed 20amp outlet, to the camper, WHILE traveling...
the 20amp extension cord has the ground pin removed

: it initially worked...
: then, at times, it faults...
: sometimes it ALWAYS faults...for no apparent reason, even though it may have worked perfectly several times before...
: sometimes it works perfectly, with no issues...

there seems to be no 'rhyme' or reason, why...

the only 'update' to this fault is one of 'process' when hooking up to the camper:
-typically, I hook up the coupler of the camper onto the ball of the truck
- I then add the chains
- I then plug in the 12v 7-pin 'light' connector from the camper to the truck
- I then plug in the 120v extension cord from the camper to the truck bed outlet

but,
after having issues the last several times, recently, I decided to take a different process:
A)back up close the camper, and plug in the 120v extension cord from the camper to the truck bed outlet, with the truck ON - this works the camper just fine...no issues... run the roof a/c if needed.
B)then, drop the camper coupler onto the ball of the truck... still works fine
C)add chains, THEN plug in the 12v 7 pin 'light' connector from the camper to the truck... still working.

this seems to have initially solved the 'fault' issue... although I've noticed one problem:
- when there is ONLY the 120v connection from the truck to the camper, everything works perfectly, and ALL at the same time - the roof a/c, etc...
- but, when coupling to the ball and/or plugging in the 12v 7pin connector, any 'large' load from the camper will cause the 'fault'... as though the metal-to-metal coupler/ball, or the 7pin connector 'connection' is somehow creating a 'fault' issue, but only with a larger load...

I suppose you could suggest that the roof a/c unit's 'ground' is creating this issue, or the microwave's, etc., but these work just fine truck-to-camper, separately, but not when the truck and camper are 'attached', whether physically, or via the 12v connection...

interesting conundrum... the system seems to be overly sensitive

 

[Jodokk]

Luckily, my solar electrician is coming back and fixing everything they can. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[flyct]

I made a custom cable with 10-3 SOOW wire with only 2 hots and neutral connected to the cable plug ends. I store it in the truck bed Swing Out Storage case. https://www.ford.com/product/pivot-...91222733?gmcid=marketplace-gs-cta-accessories I used my Ford Pass Points to buy the case. I only use the custom cable for the Lightning to feed the generator inlet.

I have another standard 30 amp generator cable to use with my gas generator if needed.

I have an interlock bypass kit on the main breaker.

 

[hturnerfamily]

SOLUTION:

after posting my own 'issues' with the Ground Fault interruption with the truck, from my camper, I searched the intraweb for some more possible ideas, or better yet, answers... well, it takes a bit of searching, but found that rv-centric forums tend to be where others have had the same 'issue'...

and, I may have found my own answer:

A) while I've from time to time found success with providing continuous ProPower from the truck, to the camper, WHILE hitched, and while also using the truck's 12v 7 pin power plug to the camper's 12v system, I've often times found that there could still be times when the 'fault' happens, continuously, without being able to successfully reset it.

B) this time, while searching for why 'Camper plugged into home's GFCI outlet' rendered some typical 'your GFCI in your Camper does not play well with other GFCI outlets' answers, one NEW answer intrigued me, and became the solution:
- yes, while I initially removed the GFCI outlet from the camper, and that seemed to initially provide a solution, I ran into some issues while trying to use 'high power' appliances, without the truck faulting.
- this time, I read that another fellow camper had found out a solution, due to trying to rectify his burnt-out electric Water Heater. His 'GFCI' problem had started when he realized he had inadvertently turned it on without water. This is a common reason why camper/RV electric water heaters fail, but most of the time, since all the electric components are within/behind the water heater, it's not something you would immediately 'see', or even know about.
- when he replaced his water heater ELEMENT, his GFCI issues also went away. VOILA!!

- so, what is happening, and the same I realize in my OWN case, is that while the simple action of the water heater ELEMENT failing, it is STILL wired as though it is working, even with the breaker OFF - this 'interruption' in the wiring, now that the element is no longer a 'continuous' circuit, creates the GFCI fault issue.

- I removed the failed water heater ELEMENT wiring, and used electrical tape to cap them both.
- I then plugged the camper back into the GFCI outlet, and, VOILA!!, no GFCI tripping.


and, I will also try this with the truck's ProPower later today, both on it's own, and with the camper attached, to see if IT also is not having any GFCI 'fault' issue... let's hope.

 

[Maquis]

SOLUTION:

after posting my own 'issues' with the Ground Fault interruption with the truck, from my camper, I searched the intraweb for some more possible ideas, or better yet, answers... well, it takes a bit of searching, but found that rv-centric forums tend to be where others have had the same 'issue'...

and, I may have found my own answer:

A) while I've from time to time found success with providing continuous ProPower from the truck, to the camper, WHILE hitched, and while also using the truck's 12v 7 pin power plug to the camper's 12v system, I've often times found that there could still be times when the 'fault' happens, continuously, without being able to successfully reset it.

B) this time, while searching for why 'Camper plugged into home's GFCI outlet' rendered some typical 'your GFCI in your Camper does not play well with other GFCI outlets' answers, one NEW answer intrigued me, and became the solution:
- yes, while I initially removed the GFCI outlet from the camper, and that seemed to initially provide a solution, I ran into some issues while trying to use 'high power' appliances, without the truck faulting.
- this time, I read that another fellow camper had found out a solution, due to trying to rectify his burnt-out electric Water Heater. His 'GFCI' problem had started when he realized he had inadvertently turned it on without water. This is a common reason why camper/RV electric water heaters fail, but most of the time, since all the electric components are within/behind the water heater, it's not something you would immediately 'see', or even know about.
- when he replaced his water heater ELEMENT, his GFCI issues also went away. VOILA!!

- so, what is happening, and the same I realize in my OWN case, is that while the simple action of the water heater ELEMENT failing, it is STILL wired as though it is working, even with the breaker OFF - this 'interruption' in the wiring, now that the element is no longer a 'continuous' circuit, creates the GFCI fault issue.

- I removed the failed water heater ELEMENT wiring, and used electrical tape to cap them both.
- I then plugged the camper back into the GFCI outlet, and, VOILA!!, no GFCI tripping.


and, I will also try this with the truck's ProPower later today, both on it's own, and with the camper attached, to see if IT also is not having any GFCI 'fault' issue... let's hope.

I think what actually happens is when the heating element fails, the resistance wire shorts to the sheath which is grounded. So even with the heater off, the neutral side is still connected to its side of the element, resulting in a N-G short.
I’ve seen similar problems when a hot tub that’s worked for years starts tripping the GFCI. The heating element can even start leaking to ground before it totally fails.

Good find on your part!

 

[hturnerfamily]

SOLVED:

yes, and the system works now, FULLY, when applied to the TRUCK and both coupled and 7pin to the CAMPER... the roof a/c and microwave both worked without issue on ProPower... no fault.... sweet.


I'll agree that the failure, or 'burn out', of the water heater ELEMENT is to blame.

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