Home Integration System (Delta/Ford via AEE Express) Component Change?

[rtw819]

I noticed today that there was a change to the specs being reported on the AEE Express web page for the Ford H.I.S. that indicates Ford/Delta/Sunrun/AEE are switching from the E10_BDI model to the E4_BDI part number for the inverter component of the H.I.S. (Source below.)

Check out the Downloads section on the AEE page and look at the differences in the BDI Series Datasheet PDF. Here's a summary and some assumptions:

The original E10_BDI part -- based on the datasheet -- shows as a 10kW max power output in "AC PORT (ON-GRID MODE)" where the E4_BDI part number has a 4kW ON-GRID max output -- and I'm sure the lesser model would be less expensive, but the price didn't change since it's still $3895 (up from the original $3700).

The good news: the "AC PORT (OFF-GRID MODE)" is still a common 9600W Max Output power for both models, so the part change won't affect the Intelligent Backup Power from the truck and still allows for the full 9600W backup power in off-grid mode.

On the other side of this: If I'm interpreting this hardware change accurately, it may mean the updated selection of the E4_BDI hardware would only support 4kW of load during a normal on-grid mode scenario. With that assumption brings an impact to the max level of PV input (# panels/overall system sizing/effective max solar power generation) since it caps the on-grid inverter output at 4kW. While I'm not 100% positive, I'm thinking this model/part change might make for some complex capacity challenges. Granted, this would likely only apply to folks that plan to use the HIS for a NEW solar install, but it seems like they took a cheap way out. (I can't use this HIS gear with my existing home solar platform, but that's a different conversation.)

I just found the change in hardware selection at this stage in the game pretty odd, and thought I'd bring it to the group.

The page https://aeeexpress.com/crs/storeus/browse/productDetailSingleSku.jsp?productId=0000000664 has changed since the previous check.


Changed:
- 1. Bidirectional Inverter
... into:
+ 1. Bidirectional Inverter (4kW)

Changed:
- Manufacturer Part Number E10_BDI
... into:
+ Manufacturer Part Number E4_BDI

Changed:
- Long Description Bidirectional Inverter, Microgrid Integration Device,
- Dark Start Battery
... into:
+ Long Description 4kW Bidirectional Inverter, Microgrid Integration
+ Device, Dark Start Battery

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[adoublee]

What a mess. The 4K won't supply 9.6kW to the home, so I can't imagine how this is what Ford is thinking will be supplied. But there are still many questions, like how does one purchase the options indicated. Someone posted Delta contact info, vut their phone numbers literally put me on hold and then hang up on me shortly thereafter.

 

[RTanton]

What a mess. The 4K won't supply 9.6kW to the home, so I can't imagine how this is what Ford is thinking will be supplied. But there are still many questions, like how does one purchase the options indicated. Someone posted Delta contact info, vut their phone numbers literally put me on hold and then hang up on me shortly thereafter.

 

[RTanton]

If you see info re their inverters(attached), all of their inverters supply the same 9.6KW when the system is off the grid. They will supply the same 9.6 KW that the Lightning can produce during power outages. The difference between E4, E6, E8, &E10 is the amount of DC power that they convert to AC when they are on the grid. In our specific case we already have 21 SunPower panels with micro inverters. Going to a new Lightning (replacing a Sonata Plug-in Hybrid) we will consume more KWs, so we opted to add an additional 8 panels from SunRun. Those panels will make up the difference, but do not require the E10 inverter; thus, connecting with the E4.

 

[PV2EV]

Well this blows. Assuming a. this is limiting the PV support, and b. the BDI will use solar off grid, then the 10kW system I wanted to convert to the BDI won't work. This is critical as I overbuilt knowing that my power outages are in the winter and I get little sun then. A 4kW system is nearly useless for me and I will likely just use the truck as a generator, hoping the outage is not too long.

 

[rtw819]

If you see info re their inverters(attached), all of their inverters supply the same 9.6KW when the system is off the grid. They will supply the same 9.6 KW that the Lightning can produce during power outages. The difference between E4, E6, E8, &E10 is the amount of DC power that they convert to AC when they are on the grid.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I was saying. That was the document I was referencing.

In our specific case we already have 21 SunPower panels with micro inverters. Going to a new Lightning (replacing a Sonata Plug-in Hybrid) we will consume more KWs, so we opted to add an additional 8 panels from SunRun. Those panels will make up the difference, but do not require the E10 inverter; thus, connecting with the E4.

I guess if you have a mixed system with micro inverters and non-inverter panels you might be able to get by with the E4 / 4kW from your panels. I was just surprised by the fact that they had originally indicated they were including the E10 and dropped it to the E4 model. Glad it is going to work out for you! I suspect you are probably in the minority, however.

Well this blows. Assuming a. this is limiting the PV support, and b. the BDI will use solar off grid, then the 10kW system I wanted to convert to the BDI won't work. This is critical as I overbuilt knowing that my power outages are in the winter and I get little sun then. A 4kW system is nearly useless for me and I will likely just use the truck as a generator, hoping the outage is not too long.

Yeah, that is what I was kind of thinking. If they change the supplied hardware at the same cost, I'm sure Sunrun/AEE would sell you the E6, E8 or E10_BDI model for more $$$.

 

[RTanton]

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I was saying. That was the document I was referencing.



I guess if you have a mixed system with micro inverters and non-inverter panels you might be able to get by with the E4 / 4kW from your panels. I was just surprised by the fact that they had originally indicated they were including the E10 and dropped it to the E4 model. Glad it is going to work out for you! I suspect you are probably in the minority, however.




Yeah, that is what I was kind of thinking. If they change the supplied hardware at the same cost, I'm sure Sunrun/AEE would sell you the E6, E8 or E10_BDI model for more $$$.

I asked the question…should I go pay more and go with the E10 so that I go add addition additional panels if needed at a later date? SunRun told me that they do not add additional panels to an existing inverter. I guess I understand their reasoning as the achilles heal of solar installations has been capacitor failure in inverters(why we went micro inverters with our first set from SunPower). They do not create added stress on nan older unit. I also suspect thety may have limited quantities available and do not delay a larger panel installation.

 

[PV2EV]

I asked the question…should I go pay more and go with the E10 so that I go add addition additional panels if needed at a later date? SunRun told me that they do not add additional panels to an existing inverter. I guess I understand their reasoning as the achilles heal of solar installations has been capacitor failure in inverters(why we went micro inverters with our first set from SunPower). They do not create added stress on nan older unit. I also suspect thety may have limited quantities available and do not delay a larger panel installation.

At the original price point, and now with 40% of the capacity, they should have plenty of stock. If this is not a 10Kw solution anymore, I will wait for the truck to support a standards based solution and find my own vendor. Hopefully there is a certification program.

 

[watchdoc]

So does anyone know the actual "max PV allowed"? Also, does this inverter only allow 2 strings or 4?

 

[adoublee]

So does anyone know the actual "max PV allowed"? Also, does this inverter only allow 2 strings or 4?

4 strings, 2 input terminals per string.

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