Kia flagship EV has a battery problem

[hturnerfamily]

read the whole thing

well, that's the point - paywall...

but, even when you actually get to the .pdf and 'read the whole thing', what you find is that the headlines are STILL MISLEADING, as there is no proof that the 'battery', the HV Battery pack, is the ISSUE, but that part of the charging EQUIPMENT 'might' be at issue... even then, the article and it's interviewees are 'assuming' a lot when they make general statements.

yes, it's aggravating when it happens to you, of course, but it's not necessarily what you are assuming is wrong... the 'battery' always gets the limelight, and the blame, when, actually, it's something much less catastrophic. Headlines are for catching attention, not for truthful and provable information.
If your starter stops working properly on your ICE gas truck, you might initially 'assume' that the engine has died. The starter may have, but not the engine.

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[MontanaLightning]

I was wondering what "grounding itself" could mean in this context, because you definitely don't want to short a failing HV pack module to ground and where would you get a solid ground anyway, but then I realized that from the document structure and tone, this is likely an AI-generated summary and may contain hallucinated information. Am I wrong?

Not a good place to use a non-technical metaphor. Grounding like the FAA grounding Boeing.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[tls]

Not a good place to use a non-technical metaphor. Grounding like the FAA grounding Boeing.

Sorry for the confusion.

Hey, I am realizing that might have come across as if I was accusing you of being a bot. I didn't mean to - sorry about that!

I thought maybe what I was looking at was an AI summary of the page behind the paywall that we can't see and wondered how skeptical we needed to be of it.

 

[MontanaLightning]

yes, it's aggravating when it happens to you, of course, but it's not necessarily what you are assuming is wrong... the 'battery' always gets the limelight, and the blame, when, actually, it's something much less catastrophic. Headlines are for catching attention, not for truthful and provable information.
If your starter stops working properly on your ICE gas truck, you might initially 'assume' that the engine has died. The starter may have, but not the engine.

Look at how Ford engineered the F-150 Lightning pack versus how Kia is handling the E-GMP platform right now:

• The Ford Approach (Component-Level Repair): Ford specifically designed the Lightning’s massive battery enclosure to be serviceable at the dealer level. If a single module drops voltage or fails to balance, a certified Ford dealership tech can drop the pack shield, unbolt the top cover, swap out that one specific module on-site, and run an internal software routine to balance it with the rest of the pack. You are back on the road in a couple of days because the dealer only needs a single module shipped from a regional parts hub.
• The Kia Approach (The Whole-Pack Swap): Kia’s current service protocol for the EV9 does not allow dealership technicians to crack open the sealed high-voltage enclosure to swap an individual module. Even if the actual failure is a single $300 internal monitoring board or one weak cell out of the 38 modules, Kia's only authorized fix right now is to swap the entire, massive high-voltage battery pack assembly. So while the media loves to scream 'dead battery' when it might just be a minor internal component glitch, the functional outcome for the owner is exactly the same.

Because Kia treats the pack as a single, unserviceable unit at the dealer level, a minor cell balance issue triggers a logistics nightmare where the dealer has to order an entire 100 kWh crate directly from South Korea. That is where the multi-month backlogs are coming from, not necessarily because the whole battery melted down, but because Kia’s service architecture requires a sledgehammer to fix a finishing nail.

 

[Grumpy2]

Kia’s current service protocol for the EV9 does not allow dealership technicians to crack open the sealed high-voltage enclosure to swap an individual module.

This is what has amazed me about the Tesla approach. What have they built into their pack that allows the car to continue to operate with one cell goes bad?

I agree FORD was on the best approach for the Lightning, plus now we have the possibilities with future changes within that pack too.

 

[MontanaLightning]

This is what has amazed me about the Tesla approach. What have they built into their pack that allows the car to continue to operate with one cell goes bad?

I agree FORD was on the best approach for the Lightning, plus now we have the possibilities with future changes within that pack too.

The Tesla Approach: Sacrificial Micro-Fuses
Tesla packs (especially the 18650 and 2170 cells found in the Model S, X, 3, and Y) are made up of thousands of tiny, cylindrical battery cells bundled together in massive parallel groups called 'bricks.'

Tesla’s secret isn't a complex software bypass, it’s thin wire bonding.

Every single individual cell is connected to the main collector plate by a microscopic, laser-welded wire that acts as a literal individual safety fuse.

• If a cell develops an internal short circuit: The massive rush of energy from the surrounding healthy cells in that parallel group will instantly melt that specific cell's tiny wire bond.
• The Result: The dead cell is instantly, physically isolated and 'cleared' from the pack. The rest of the pack keeps right on rolling. Because there are thousands of cells, losing one or two only drops your overall capacity by a fraction of a percent. The car doesn't even throw a dashboard error code because the statistical impact is so small.

The Ford Approach: The Heavy Industrial Blueprint
Ford looked at Tesla’s approach and said, 'We don't want to manage 8,000 tiny flashlights. We want to build an industrial truck.' Ford uses large, heavy duty pouch cells grouped into distinct, serviceable internal modules. Because a pouch cell holds significantly more energy than a tiny Tesla cylinder, you can't just let one short out and pop a micro fuse without risking massive heat buildup.

Instead, Ford built the Lightning pack with dealer level serviceability in mind. They accepted that if a module goes down, the car will throw a code and need service, but they made the pack completely modular so a technician can unbolt the enclosure and swap just that segment on the shop floor.

The Current EV9 Reality Check
This brings us back to why the Kia EV9 community is sweating the 38 module issue.

Kia used a modular structure similar to Ford's, but without the dealer level repair protocol. If an EV9 module behaves poorly, the car doesn't have thousands of tiny micro fuses to isolate it like a Tesla, and the Kia technicians aren't authorized to crack the pack open to replace just that module like a Ford tech can.

Tesla handles cell failure with automated physical isolation. Ford handles it with hardware serviceability. Kia, at this moment, is stuck in the middle requiring a full crate replacement from Korea for a single module glitch.

 

[MontanaLightning]

Here is how Kia is trying to fix this, and why it is taking them so much longer than Ford:

1. The Current Plan: Regional "Reman" Centers
Because cracking open an 800V pack requires specialized high voltage cleanrooms and immense safety protocols, Kia’s immediate transition isn't to let every local dealership do it. Instead, they are spinning up Regional Battery Remanufacturing Centers across North America.

• The Goal: Instead of shipping a brand new 100 kWh crate all the way from South Korea every time a module drops voltage, the local dealer will ship the pack to a regional domestic hub.
• The Fix: Technicians at that hub will swap the single bad module, balance the pack, and send it back to the dealer as a certified refurbished unit. This mimics Ford's approach, but moves the dirty work off the local dealership's garage floor.

2. The 800 Volt Safety Hurdle
Why can't a local Kia tech just unbolt the pack and fix it today like a Ford tech? It comes down to voltage and safety training.

• The Lightning is a 400 volt system. While still incredibly dangerous, 400V is an industry standard that automotive technicians have dealt with for over a decade (thanks to older hybrids and early EVs).
• The EV9 is an 800 volt system. At 800V, the arc flash hazard is exponentially higher. The safety clearances, specialized insulated tools, and technical certification required to legally and safely crack open an 800V sealed container are severe. Most local dealerships simply haven't invested the capital to upgrade their service bays or train their techs to that level yet.

3. The Future: Next Gen "Cell-to-Pack" (CTP)
Looking further out, Kia is actually planning to bypass Ford's module method entirely for their next generation of vehicles. They are moving toward Cell-to-Pack technology, where the individual modules are eliminated entirely, and the cells are integrated directly into the car's structural frame.

Ironically, this means future Kias will look more like Tesla's approach relying entirely on advanced software isolation and physical structural integrity, rather than manual, bolt-by-bolt dealer repairs.

 

[garsh]

The E-GMP platforms have an ongoing issue with the ICCU. That's the device that handles charging the high voltage battery as well as the 12v battery. I had the ICCU fail on my Ioniq 5.

I think it's more likely that the owner(s) in the article had ICCU failures rather than HV battery failures.

The thread on this topic has over 3700 posts over on the Ioniq forum:

https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/iccu-recall-announced-in-korean-press.49161/

 

[MontanaLightning]

I had the ICCU fail on my Ioniq 5.

Have you turned your AC charging amps down for ICCU longevity?

 

[chl]

well, that's the point - paywall...

but, even when you actually get to the .pdf and 'read the whole thing', what you find is that the headlines are STILL MISLEADING, as there is no proof that the 'battery', the HV Battery pack, is the ISSUE, but that part of the charging EQUIPMENT 'might' be at issue... even then, the article and it's interviewees are 'assuming' a lot when they make general statements.

yes, it's aggravating when it happens to you, of course, but it's not necessarily what you are assuming is wrong... the 'battery' always gets the limelight, and the blame, when, actually, it's something much less catastrophic. Headlines are for catching attention, not for truthful and provable information.
If your starter stops working properly on your ICE gas truck, you might initially 'assume' that the engine has died. The starter may have, but not the engine.

Seems to me it also cited some HV battery failures - if you read it again it seems to be saying there are both HVB and ICCU issues going on:

"...After a couple of diagnostic sessions, my local Kia dealer eventually came to the conclusion that the main high-voltage battery pack was faulty and would need to be replaced. Instead of leaving it at the garage for a week or two, I entered into Kia’s battery repair program, which has no ETA and is part of the eight-year warranty cover that Kia provides for EV batteries in the UK....The stories of the more than a dozen EV9 owners I’ve spoken to are all very similar and point to a Kia that is struggling with battery replacements
on its flagship EV...But the problems for Kia and Hyundai EVs go even deeper. The sibling brands, operating under the Hyundai Motor Group, have each suffered a variety of issues with Integrated Charging Control Unit (ICCU) failures in recent years across the Ioniq 5, EV6, and other models..."


Sound to me like the article is saying there are both kinds of issues.

 

[garsh]

Sound to me like the article is saying there are both kinds of issues.

I was on the Ioniq forums for a few years, and battery failures were not a common issue. I think that article is WAY overstating that issue.

 

[garsh]

Have you turned your AC charging amps down for ICCU longevity?

My Ioniq 5 was charged from a 16 amp EVSE. That's pretty low, considering it can accept up to 48 amps.

Many people suggested such "babying" techniques to help avoid ICCU failures, but the fact is that nothing has been found to prevent them. Hyundai just has a flaw in their ICCU design, and they STILL haven't managed to solve it after 4+ years. I finally traded in the Ioniq 5 because the replacement ICCU has no part update, so it's just another ticking time-bomb as far as I'm concerned.

 

[jwrezz]

Since when is The Verge pay-walled?!?

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

Since when is The Verge pay-walled?!?

I think it's been about a year. Really sucks

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