Massachusetts - Vehicle to X Program

[JvdMaat]

Keep in mind you are choosing between some solar credits and over $10k of free equipment. Instead of solar credits, you should be able to do self consumption, and basically save the same amount of money as well.

Yes. Here's their full reply:

Dear Solar Awardee,
We appreciate your patience as we've worked to better understand how Net Metering and V2X interact currently in Massachusetts. We've come to the conclusion that currently net metering is not possible in conjunction with V2X.

Because of this, we are asking whether you want to continue in the MassCEC V2X Demonstration Program (the Program). If you were to continue in the Program, you would receive a fully funded V2X system with which you can participate in Connected Solutions.

We are including some information here to better inform your understanding of the potential comparative values of solar net metering, a V2X system, and Connected Solutions:

• Information on how to calculate your net metering credit is provided in section (2) of the Net metering guide | Mass.gov
• MassSave provides an example in the document linked below calculating a $550 payout for a fictional participant discharging between 2 and 3kW per event in the ConnectedSolutions Program. Information on how to calculate your potential V2X earnings from ConnectedSolutions is included on page 6 of this MassSave document: https://www.masssave.com/-/media/Fi...ma_resi_battery_program_materials-2-20-25.pdf
• The average value of the V2X systems provided by the Program (including hardware and installation) is $23,800

We are not able to do calculations on your behalf or provide financial advice, but we would be very happy to answer any other questions as you consider which path you prefer. Please send questions to this email address, [email protected]. We will also hold a voluntary webinar on Wednesday, November 12 from 6pm EST for all Program applications that have existing solar systems that are likely participating in Net Metering to provide another chance to ask questions. Any questions, via email or the webinar, and their answers, will be anonymized and shared with all applicants by Thursday, November 13.
We will be asking you to confirm one of the following by Wednesday November 19:

• If you would prefer to stay in the Program, knowing that your Net Metering will be discontinued once the V2X charger is installed; or
• If you would prefer to give your place in the V2X Program to someone on the waitlist, forgoing your V2X system.

Once again, we truly do appreciate your patience as we've worked this through, and encourage your questions as you decide your preferred option.



So I can still (I assume) use my solar internally. Just any overflow goes to waste. And I have no home batteries to buffer that.
Looking at my past 12 months, out of the 9459 kWh produced, I sold 6618 to Eversource. So that's about 70% of my production.
(Granted, only 6618*$0.35 = $2316; much less than the value of the project. But while I see the benefit (and potential future of getting re-added to net metering, regaining that solar), selling that to the wife isn't easy)

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[JvdMaat]

Can you "go back" if they no longer want to move forward with the program after Dec 2026?

That would be another option. Miss out on net metering for a year, and end up with "free" HIS for V2H in case of power outage. Will find out more on the 12th.

 

[Danface]

Yes. Here's their full reply:

Dear Solar Awardee,
We appreciate your patience as we've worked to better understand how Net Metering and V2X interact currently in Massachusetts. We've come to the conclusion that currently net metering is not possible in conjunction with V2X.

Because of this, we are asking whether you want to continue in the MassCEC V2X Demonstration Program (the Program). If you were to continue in the Program, you would receive a fully funded V2X system with which you can participate in Connected Solutions.

We are including some information here to better inform your understanding of the potential comparative values of solar net metering, a V2X system, and Connected Solutions:

• Information on how to calculate your net metering credit is provided in section (2) of the Net metering guide | Mass.gov
• MassSave provides an example in the document linked below calculating a $550 payout for a fictional participant discharging between 2 and 3kW per event in the ConnectedSolutions Program. Information on how to calculate your potential V2X earnings from ConnectedSolutions is included on page 6 of this MassSave document: https://www.masssave.com/-/media/Fi...ma_resi_battery_program_materials-2-20-25.pdf
• The average value of the V2X systems provided by the Program (including hardware and installation) is $23,800

We are not able to do calculations on your behalf or provide financial advice, but we would be very happy to answer any other questions as you consider which path you prefer. Please send questions to this email address, [email protected]. We will also hold a voluntary webinar on Wednesday, November 12 from 6pm EST for all Program applications that have existing solar systems that are likely participating in Net Metering to provide another chance to ask questions. Any questions, via email or the webinar, and their answers, will be anonymized and shared with all applicants by Thursday, November 13.
We will be asking you to confirm one of the following by Wednesday November 19:

• If you would prefer to stay in the Program, knowing that your Net Metering will be discontinued once the V2X charger is installed; or
• If you would prefer to give your place in the V2X Program to someone on the waitlist, forgoing your V2X system.

Once again, we truly do appreciate your patience as we've worked this through, and encourage your questions as you decide your preferred option.



So I can still (I assume) use my solar internally. Just any overflow goes to waste. And I have no home batteries to buffer that.
Looking at my past 12 months, out of the 9459 kWh produced, I sold 6618 to Eversource. So that's about 70% of my production.
(Granted, only 6618*$0.35 = $2316; much less than the value of the project. But while I see the benefit (and potential future of getting re-added to net metering, regaining that solar), selling that to the wife isn't easy)

The solution is you just need to use MORE electricity!

 

[JvdMaat]

The solution is you just need to use MORE electricity!

Trust me, we are..
This system (12kWp) was perfect for our home (I paid a $28 electric bill in March before solar outperformed usage two years ago). Then we converted from propane to geothermal, and got the Lightning. And now my "built-up" solar credit over the summer was a whopping $50, and I just paid my first electric bill already.
But it's all nighttime (heating and charging) when the sun is down.

 

[tearitupsports]

Yes. Here's their full reply:

Dear Solar Awardee,
We appreciate your patience as we've worked to better understand how Net Metering and V2X interact currently in Massachusetts. We've come to the conclusion that currently net metering is not possible in conjunction with V2X.

Because of this, we are asking whether you want to continue in the MassCEC V2X Demonstration Program (the Program). If you were to continue in the Program, you would receive a fully funded V2X system with which you can participate in Connected Solutions.

We are including some information here to better inform your understanding of the potential comparative values of solar net metering, a V2X system, and Connected Solutions:

• Information on how to calculate your net metering credit is provided in section (2) of the Net metering guide | Mass.gov
• MassSave provides an example in the document linked below calculating a $550 payout for a fictional participant discharging between 2 and 3kW per event in the ConnectedSolutions Program. Information on how to calculate your potential V2X earnings from ConnectedSolutions is included on page 6 of this MassSave document: https://www.masssave.com/-/media/Fi...ma_resi_battery_program_materials-2-20-25.pdf
• The average value of the V2X systems provided by the Program (including hardware and installation) is $23,800

We are not able to do calculations on your behalf or provide financial advice, but we would be very happy to answer any other questions as you consider which path you prefer. Please send questions to this email address, [email protected]. We will also hold a voluntary webinar on Wednesday, November 12 from 6pm EST for all Program applications that have existing solar systems that are likely participating in Net Metering to provide another chance to ask questions. Any questions, via email or the webinar, and their answers, will be anonymized and shared with all applicants by Thursday, November 13.
We will be asking you to confirm one of the following by Wednesday November 19:

• If you would prefer to stay in the Program, knowing that your Net Metering will be discontinued once the V2X charger is installed; or
• If you would prefer to give your place in the V2X Program to someone on the waitlist, forgoing your V2X system.

Once again, we truly do appreciate your patience as we've worked this through, and encourage your questions as you decide your preferred option.



So I can still (I assume) use my solar internally. Just any overflow goes to waste. And I have no home batteries to buffer that.
Looking at my past 12 months, out of the 9459 kWh produced, I sold 6618 to Eversource. So that's about 70% of my production.
(Granted, only 6618*$0.35 = $2316; much less than the value of the project. But while I see the benefit (and potential future of getting re-added to net metering, regaining that solar), selling that to the wife isn't easy)

The compatible battery cost under $3k. You can ask Sunrun if the would install this at the same time and how much they would charge to do so.
most of the labor is already covered since it goes into the same inverter.

 

[JvdMaat]

The compatible battery cost under $3k. You can ask Sunrun if the would install this at the same time and how much they would charge to do so.
most of the labor is already covered since it goes into the same inverter.

Interesting. That's good to know..
Same inverter? I had inquired with Sunrun about this a little, and they stated the solar was separate from this, and with the setup they're deploying (V2X with HIS), during a power outage, the truck would power a few circuits in the house on a separate subpanel, but the solar would be isolated and not able to be utilized.

But then, there's also people with existing home batteries in this program using Connected Solutions to feed the grid that are getting this setup. And that works somehow. It's just net metering that's crippled. Or can't net meter alongside battery feeding the grid.

 

[Danface]

I wonder if the tuck not being connected is considered an "opt out"?

If a customer opts out of an event or has some communication or other issue that prevents them from discharging during an event, they will be given a 0 kW performance for that event. These will affect the customer’s average performance and incentive. Approved inverter manufacturers must provide 24x7 15-minute interval, or more granular data, for the entire demand response season which performance is being calculated in order to receive fees or for their customers to receive performance-based incentives. This data is used to calculate performance and to evaluate the effectiveness of the baseline method.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The table below shows the results of a fictional customer’s curtailment performance over a summer that had four demand response events over the whole summer. There are many more events over the course of a summer.

Event	Performed Curtailment Amount
Event 1	2 kW
Event 2	3 kW
Event 3	3 kW
Event 4	0 kW

The customers average performance over the summer would be:

𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴𝐴 𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆𝑆 𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃𝑃 =

(2𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘 + 3 𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘 + 3 𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘 + 0 𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘)/4 = 2.0 𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘

The total incentive amount to be paid for this fictional customer would be:

For Eversource, National Grid and Cape Light Compact Customers: 2 𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘 X $275𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘𝑘 = $550

 

[JvdMaat]

Event	Performed Curtailment Amount
Event 1	2 kW
Event 2	3 kW
Event 3	3 kW
Event 4	0 kW

I keep seeing these numbers (2-3kW discharge rate per event), and wonder where the holdup is. The truck can charge at 19kW. Why can't we feed back to the grid at a higher rate than 3kW, and actually put a dent in a few house's worth of use, instead of just a single home.

 

[Danface]

I keep seeing these numbers (2-3kW discharge rate per event), and wonder where the holdup is. The truck can charge at 19kW. Why can't we feed back to the grid at a higher rate than 3kW, and actually put a dent in a few house's worth of use, instead of just a single home.

I think the doc was written for home batteries so like 5-10 kWH. I wrote to the person I've been talking to as Sunrun to see if she knew if the truck being driven would be considered and 0kW event. I'll ask the folks running the program

 

[JvdMaat]

I think the doc was written for home batteries so like 5-10 kWH. I wrote to the person I've been talking to as Sunrun to see if she knew if the truck being driven would be considered and 0kW event. I'll ask the folks running the program

I just asked what the max discharge rate would be under the program. If we can average 9kW, that would be a payout of 9*275 = $2475 for the year. And that covers my potential $2300 solar net metering loss. At the bonus of having power during an outage, and doing the good thing and helping with peak events. win-win-win.

 

[JvdMaat]

@Aminorjourney just told me the HIS supports up to 9.8kW pull from the truck. So in theory we could push 9kW to the grid during peak events.

 

[tearitupsports]

Interesting. That's good to know..
Same inverter? I had inquired with Sunrun about this a little, and they stated the solar was separate from this, and with the setup they're deploying (V2X with HIS), during a power outage, the truck would power a few circuits in the house on a separate subpanel, but the solar would be isolated and not able to be utilized.

But then, there's also people with existing home batteries in this program using Connected Solutions to feed the grid that are getting this setup. And that works somehow. It's just net metering that's crippled. Or can't net meter alongside battery feeding the grid.

They are not correct. The Ford/Sunrun system is a Delta inverter capable of connecting to the truck, an LG battery (2 actually) and has MPPT for direct solar input.
In addition is can also tie to existing AC coupled solar.
The LG RESU Prime 16H is fully compatible with the inverter they are already providing. Ask them what the add on cost would be. you can buy this battery from signature solar for under $3k, but it sill needs professional installation.
I have the Ford system, and verify that AC coupled solar works just fine in off grid scenario, as long as you move the solar breakers into your backup load panel as well. In my case I have a 9 year old SolarEdge inverter that I tied in. In off grid, the excess solar will charge the truck automatically. I have previous posts on this.

 

[JvdMaat]

They are not correct. The Ford/Sunrun system is a Delta inverter capable of connecting to the truck, an LG battery (2 actually) and has MPPT for direct solar input.
In addition is can also tie to existing AC coupled solar.
The LG RESU Prime 16H is fully compatible with the inverter they are already providing. Ask them what the add on cost would be. you can buy this battery from signature solar for under $3k, but it sill needs professional installation.
I have the Ford system, and verify that AC coupled solar works just fine in off grid scenario, as long as you move the solar breakers into your backup load panel as well. In my case I have a 9 year old SolarEdge inverter that I tied in. In off grid, the excess solar will charge the truck automatically. I have previous posts on this.

Interesting. Thanks.
These are the direct quotes from Sunrun:

For the system, we will install a subpanel to be a dedicated backup loads panel. We will take from the main service panel (or any other subs) and redirect them to this back up loads panel. This way, the system is tied in with just the specific loads. The Home Integrations System does have limitations. We cannot utilize equipment greater than 50 Amps and no motor load with an LRA (locked rotor amps) greater than 70 amps.

Solar is fine, we just cannot integrate solar into the Home Integrations System because we will run off a different inverter.

In an outage, the solar panels cannot add anything / charge the truck. This is where other solar batteries would come in. If you had solar batteries, the solar would charge those up and use those batteries in an outage. Just to note however, the Ford system does not integrate with solar batteries. Whatever loads you have on the solar battery will only be backed up by the solar battery until it runs out of "juice" and vice versa - any loads you have on the Ford system will only be backed up by the truck until it runs out of "juice". They cannot compensate for each other after their respective charges run out.

 

[tearitupsports]

Interesting. Thanks.
These are the direct quotes from Sunrun:



Solar is fine, we just cannot integrate solar into the Home Integrations System because we will run off a different inverter.

In an outage, the solar panels cannot add anything / charge the truck.

That statement is just plain false. I have the system and it works just fine. I would challenge them on this.

This image is straight out of the inverter manual:

 

[JvdMaat]

That statement is just plain false. I have the system and it works just fine. I would challenge them on this.

This image is straight out of the inverter manual:

Our deployment is using the Ford Home Integration System (HIS). Is that what you have?
It sounds like the HIS is the limiting factor.

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