Selfish Solar and the Lightning Pro

[watchdoc]

Looks like the Extended range pack is gonna be out of my budget so I'm looking hard at the Pro and XLT.

So what do you guys think about using the Pro 9.6 to charge the batteries and or run a critical loads panel of my selfish solar system in the event of a outage.

For those of you that aren't familiar with Selfish Solar. You forgo net metering and all the fancy transfer switches etc and simply use the grid to charge your home batteries when solar isn't enough. In this regard, the Pro 9.6 could charge the home battery bank during an outage or solar short fall.

selfish solar

I'm still in the planning stages at this point and I know just enough to be dangerous so I'm hoping some other solar experts might chime in with their thoughts.

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[adoublee]

Just don't expect to charge with Lightning and solar at the same time if going through the unidirectional Pro Power Onboard system.

 

[watchdoc]

No, I would charge the house batteries with the 30 amp plug. I didn't think the Pro or XLT with the standard battery came with the bi directional charger anyway. Am I mistaken?

 

[adoublee]

You can option up use of the charge port to give HIS system access to the battery DC. So the truck charger isn't bidirectional but overall system with HIS is. With SR, have to pay a software upgrade fee in addition to buying the FCSP EVSE and HIS inverter. It's a big $ jump.

 

[watchdoc]

That's sort of my point. Just use the 30 amp plug to feed the battery charger and save the money. This would be a poor man's setup I suppose. If I could afford the extended range plus another $10k for all the fancy birectional Sunrun stuff, that would be great but I can't so I'm wondering how much I can do this way.

 

[hturnerfamily]

you can use the 20amp 120v outlets or the 30amp 240v outlet for anything you wish... you don't have to have any 'bidirectional' charging system 'upgrade' to do any of that - it's actually much simpler if you don't. And, much, much, much cheaper.

 

[jefro]

The question needs to start off with daily expected usage.

 

[watchdoc]

The question needs to start off with daily expected usage.

an average day for me is 35-40 miles. I already have a Leaf + and it works very well for me and has a similar range to the Lightning Pro. We would still have a gas vehicle for the foreseeable future.

 

[adoublee]

I wish Jack Rickard was still around to provide color commentary on where the Lightning is relative to CT and others.

I think the cost of the HIS is well within the affluence he describes to be a selfish solar early adopter. The question now is how it can and will perform. The Lightning battery size and accessiblity could be a big enabler of selfish solar without tearing the pack out like Jack was doing with wrecked Teslas.

 

[MickeyAO]

I wish Jack Rickard was still around to provide color commentary on where the Lightning is relative to CT and others.

I think the cost of the HIS is well within the affluence he describes to be a selfish solar early adopter. The question now is how it can and will perform. The Lightning battery size and accessiblity could be a big enabler of selfish solar without tearing the pack out like Jack was doing with wrecked Teslas.

 

[watchdoc]

I wish Jack Rickard was still around to provide color commentary on where the Lightning is relative to CT and others.

I think the cost of the HIS is well within the affluence he describes to be a selfish solar early adopter. The question now is how it can and will perform. The Lightning battery size and accessiblity could be a big enabler of selfish solar without tearing the pack out like Jack was doing with wrecked Teslas.

yeah, I was never a fan of the home brewed Tesla pack idea with custom 400v inverters from China. I think we have arrived at a time when a typical 48v system can accomplish all the selfish solar goals. The F150 Lightning Pro not only gives you a place to dump your excess energy (rather than just heating water) but also provides a way to recharge the house batteries during a energy production shortfall. THEN, you still have the grid as a backup. Selfish solar also allows someone to baby step their way into being off the grid. You can simply migrate more devices to off grid use as your system allows.

I would prefer to stay within one eco system (ie Renogy, SolarEdge, Tesla, etc) but it's hard to find one company that does it all well and at a reasonable price.

 

[p52Ranch]

Wouldn’t it be more efficient to supply part of the house directly from the Lightning? Thereby just converting from DC to AC once rather than converting DC to AC then AC to DC and then DC back to AC a second time.

 

[watchdoc]

Wouldn’t it be more efficient to supply part of the house directly from the Lightning? Thereby just converting from DC to AC once rather than converting DC to AC then AC to DC and then DC back to AC a second time.

more efficient yes but also more complicated since those items wouldn't be able to run if the F150 wasn't home. In a perfect world, everything would be DC coupled from the panels, to the EV charger, to the backup battery, to the truck, and finally the inverter. Then there would only be one AC conversion feeding your devices but it gets techinal very quickly as you get into round trip efficiency battery cyce life.

it's worth noting, if I was rich, I would have a couple PowerWalls and the Lightning ER with all the Sunrun goodies. Teslas powerwall app is pretty amazing. You would easily have enough power to run everything in a nice sized home and with a 10 year unlimited cycle warranty on the powerwalls and the Lightning. This would also top $150k. I would like to achieve similar results for half the money (including the truck).

 

[watchdoc]

Met with a Solar installer yesterday and he described what I'm trying to do is much like treating your home like an RV.

You have a Hybrid inverter that controls and blends power inputs from Solar/ House Battery/Generator/Grid. The Hybrid inverter also controls output to devices and battery charging. The "selfish solar" aspect of it is merely setting it up as a "zero feedback" system to begin with since our net metering policies are terrible.

The Pro SR just becomes an external generator feeding the Hybrid solar inverter and you would of course be limited by the output of that plug as an energy source.

 

[watchdoc]

Just to summarize this thread even further after meeting with several solar installers and talking to my local utility, the cheapest method would be as follows.

F150 Lightning Pro or XLT SR with 9.6 Pro power option ($56k ish)
*Lariat ER would be $80k

Plus whatever solar setup fits your needs. In my case, I would choose a Zero Export 10kw PV system with SolarEdge energy hub with built in EV charging ($27k ish)
*Ford/Delta inverter setup would likely be a couple grand more

Finally, use a Generac manual transfer switch with critical loads panel to power from the F150 Pro Power (7.6 @ 30 amps) ($1k). The Generac switch can accept the neutral bonded output from the Pro Power bed invereter.
*no need for this with the Ford/Delta system

You'll note that there is no "house battery" included or required since the truck would soak up most of the excess solar production or power the critcal loads panel during an outage. The only downsides I can find to this setup is SolarEdge has had a higher failure rate than I would like for their inverters and their current battery Ecosystem kind of sucks if you wanted to add a house battery.

On the upside, looks like you could save $25k-$35k vs the extended range with the Ford/Delta HIS setup

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