• Welcome to F150Lightningforum.com everyone!

    If you're joining us from F150gen14.com, then you may already have an account here!

    If you were registered on F150gen14.com as of April 16, 2022 or earlier, then you can simply login here with the same username and password!

Sponsored

Interesting Tax Topic: Does the purchase of a Lightning Qualify for Federal Solar Tax Incentive

vandy1981

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Threads
62
Messages
1,507
Reaction score
2,460
Location
Tennessee
Vehicles
'19 Jaguar I-Pace, '22 Lightning Lariat ER
Occupation
Plumber
To be fair, its both. Especially if its usable. Thats the interesting aspect. The intent of the laws are to incentivize the move of folks to solar and or electric vehicles. I would assume that Ford and maybe others are potentially advocating (read as "lobbying", and if they are not they should be) for a special incentive when the vehicle can be attached to a solar system. This would allow them an additional selling point with competitors.

Truth is, if I buy a battery and install it in my solar system, I can then claim 26% on my taxes next year. We are doing the same thing with the truck. Just not exclusively. If the government were to amend the "exclusivity aspect of the law to be based upon usage, I could then claim a percentage of the 26% based upon the length of time the truck was connected to the solar equipment via the HIS. I could provide documentation as to how long it was actually connected, etc... Again, I am not going to claim it unless I hear it would qualify but... as we move forward into future legislation, I think the incentives should be amended to reward the type of installation and equipment as it may /will allow for level loading of the grid as well as reductions green-house gases by providing an alternative to non-renewable power sources.

Just sayin'...
How do you value the battery storage component of the truck? The difference between a Powerwall and the Lightning is that your purchase price also includes, motors, radios, seats, etc.

I agree that they should subsidize V2L, but I think it's a stretch to assume you can double dip in this manner.
Sponsored

 

Yellow Buddy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2022
Threads
20
Messages
2,156
Reaction score
2,750
Location
Mid-Atlantic
Vehicles
F-150L Pro, Rivian R1T, Model S, Model X
Occupation
Smart Ass
Don't forget to claim your MACR depreciation, while you are at it, since it's more than the GWRV to qualify for the "hummer rule."

Disclosure: This is not financial advice and you need to seek professional advice. ;)
I may also need a bail bondsman, a lawyer, a new orange speciality tailor as well...
 

vandy1981

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Threads
62
Messages
1,507
Reaction score
2,460
Location
Tennessee
Vehicles
'19 Jaguar I-Pace, '22 Lightning Lariat ER
Occupation
Plumber
I think #3 and #4 conflict. It is not a storage device and a vehicle at the same time. But like others said, everything is deductable until you get caught.
Also want to point out that the IRS gets $80 bn in additional funding when the bill is signed. So the good news is that you're more likely to have a faster answer to the OP's question when they are audited.
 

TaxmanHog

Moderator
Moderator
First Name
Noel
Joined
Jan 19, 2022
Threads
154
Messages
10,398
Reaction score
10,637
Location
SE. Mass.
Vehicles
2022 Lightning Lariat-ER Max Tow
Occupation
Retired
Also want to point out that the IRS gets $80 bn in additional funding when the bill is signed. So the good news is that you're more likely to have a faster answer to the OP's question when they are audited.
It's going to take 10 years to on-board 87,000 new employees, the bill instructs Treasury/IRS to spend the funds through out the time frame of 9/30/2032

Before I retired in 2019 we had gone through a couple of years of hiring booms of ~2000 enforcement staff, a substantial effort to get the process completed with comprehensive training, it can take 12 months to a couple of years to get new staff up to speed and fully trained.
 

vandy1981

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2021
Threads
62
Messages
1,507
Reaction score
2,460
Location
Tennessee
Vehicles
'19 Jaguar I-Pace, '22 Lightning Lariat ER
Occupation
Plumber
It's going to take 10 years to on-board 87,000 new employees, the bill instructs Treasury/IRS to spend the funds through out the time frame of 9/30/2032

Before I retired in 2019 we had gone through a couple of years of hiring booms of ~2000 enforcement staff, a substantial effort to get the process completed with comprehensive training, it can take 12 months to a couple of years to get new staff up to speed and fully trained.
Clearly you need to come out of retirement to help your country ;).
 

Sponsored

world2steven

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2022
Threads
22
Messages
108
Reaction score
17
Location
tucson AZ
Vehicles
22 Lightning
I would direct this at any tax professionals (looking maybe at you @TaxmanHog ) but after reading through a page on Federal Tax Incentives for Solar installs (which we are doing in conjunction with our LIghtning Purchase), would the LIghtning purchase itself qualify as a Energy Storage Device?

Per Homeowner’s Guide to the Federal Tax Credit for Solar Photovoltaics | Department of Energy
What expenses are included?
The following expenses are included:

  • Solar PV panels or PV cells used to power an attic fan (but not the fan itself)
  • Contractor labor costs for onsite preparation, assembly, or original installation, including permitting fees, inspection costs, and developer fees
  • Balance-of-system equipment, including wiring, inverters, and mounting equipment
  • Energy storage devices that are charged exclusively by the associated solar PV panels, even if the storage is placed in service in a subsequent tax year to when the solar energy system is installed (however, the energy storage devices are still subject to the installation date requirements)
  • Sales taxes on eligible expenses
I suppose that there is probably verbiage in the law that will prevent it, but not sure if anyone has considered trying to claim that 26% of the truck purchase with the installation of the HIS and solar this year.
 

world2steven

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2022
Threads
22
Messages
108
Reaction score
17
Location
tucson AZ
Vehicles
22 Lightning
I would direct this at any tax professionals (looking maybe at you @TaxmanHog ) but after reading through a page on Federal Tax Incentives for Solar installs (which we are doing in conjunction with our LIghtning Purchase), would the LIghtning purchase itself qualify as a Energy Storage Device?

Per Homeowner’s Guide to the Federal Tax Credit for Solar Photovoltaics | Department of Energy
There is probably a better way to approach the issue of bidirectional charging (BC) than applying for solar tax credits. But it needs to be addressed. With the shortage of raw materials and battery production facilities for lithium batteries expected to persist for some time, anything that can be done to make the best use of scarce resources should be encouraged by anyone serious about transitioning to renewable energy sources to reduce global warming.

Vehicle-to-grid (V2G) doesn’t need to be up and running. Nor does there need to be a catastrophic grid failure for the Lightning’s vehicle-to-home (V2H) to be of considerable value. Ford’s forthcoming Intelligent Power will achieve most of the benefits through time-of-use pricing without the need for 50 squabbling state utility commissions to agree on V2G standards.

It sounds like the IRA as now written needs serious revision. Claiming a Lightning as a solar tax credit might be a good way to get the ball rolling. Allowing a full solar credit and maybe exemptions for materials sourcing and price caps for vehicles like the Lightning, capable of supplying 240V to a home power grid is an easy case to make.
 
OP
OP
yed19

yed19

Well-known member
First Name
Jay
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Threads
8
Messages
337
Reaction score
286
Location
Washington
Vehicles
'22 F-150 Lightning Lariat, 2012 RR Sport HSE
There is probably a better way to approach the issue of bidirectional charging (BC) than applying for solar tax credits. But it needs to be addressed. With the shortage of raw materials and battery production facilities for lithium batteries expected to persist for some time, anything that can be done to make the best use of scarce resources should be encouraged by anyone serious about transitioning to renewable energy sources to reduce global warming.

Vehicle-to-grid (V2G) doesn’t need to be up and running. Nor does there need to be a catastrophic grid failure for the Lightning’s vehicle-to-home (V2H) to be of considerable value. Ford’s forthcoming Intelligent Power will achieve most of the benefits through time-of-use pricing without the need for 50 squabbling state utility commissions to agree on V2G standards.

It sounds like the IRA as now written needs serious revision. Claiming a Lightning as a solar tax credit might be a good way to get the ball rolling. Allowing a full solar credit and maybe exemptions for materials sourcing and price caps for vehicles like the Lightning, capable of supplying 240V to a home power grid is an easy case to make.
👆This. I understand the comments regarding jump suits, orange tailors, tax professionals, IRS, etc... I never really posted saying that I thought I was going to apply that incentive, etc... However, I did want to broach the subject on the idea that our use-case for Ford Lightning is DIFFERENT. V2H is a new aspect and it combines both an incentive for a vehicle (which many of us are getting) and an electric power backup of which there is no incentive (other than a charger incentive by state for many of us but is applied to all EV charger installs). Per @world2steven 's eloquent words above, V2H is a new technology that is a preferred technology across the industry for a few various reasons. If the governments goal of improving our power grid, green energy, and move to diversification of energy sources is real, then V2Hshould therefore be incentivized. But it is not. SO adjustments to the current drafted bill would be a great thing in my opinion. Maybe I will tweet my local congressional representatives.
 

PV2EV

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2022
Threads
48
Messages
660
Reaction score
451
Location
Oregon
Vehicles
2015 Chevy Volt, 2006 Kubota L39, 2006 Suzuki Eige
I think the verbiage that prevents this is "charged exclusively by the associated solar PV panels". In fact that is so poorly worded that one might be concerned about a stationary battery that is charged form either the panels or the grid.

Maybe if you take the wheels off and put it on blocks😁
 

wighty

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
214
Reaction score
189
Location
NY
Vehicles
2022 Lightning XLT (SR 311A), 2023 Genesis GV60
The solar/PV argument goes away in 2023 when battery backup installations themselves qualify for the new credits (I believe back to 30%) without needing to be attached to a PV array.
 

Sponsored

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Threads
23
Messages
788
Reaction score
752
Location
Austin, Texas
Vehicles
‘22 Lightning ER Lariat
Occupation
Fun-Employed
👆This. I understand the comments regarding jump suits, orange tailors, tax professionals, IRS, etc... I never really posted saying that I thought I was going to apply that incentive, etc... However, I did want to broach the subject on the idea that our use-case for Ford Lightning is DIFFERENT. V2H is a new aspect and it combines both an incentive for a vehicle (which many of us are getting) and an electric power backup of which there is no incentive (other than a charger incentive by state for many of us but is applied to all EV charger installs). Per @world2steven 's eloquent words above, V2H is a new technology that is a preferred technology across the industry for a few various reasons. If the governments goal of improving our power grid, green energy, and move to diversification of energy sources is real, then V2Hshould therefore be incentivized. But it is not. SO adjustments to the current drafted bill would be a great thing in my opinion. Maybe I will tweet my local congressional representatives.
mill add this to the list of reasons I won’t soon be touching Ford’s HIS with a 10-foot pole: need to at least wait for the V2H rebate train!

While I’m here, I’ll throw a thought-log on this fire: V2H incentives reach an increasingly small portion of the population, since owning an H is becoming an increasingly rare accomplishment
 

world2steven

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2022
Threads
22
Messages
108
Reaction score
17
Location
tucson AZ
Vehicles
22 Lightning
The solar/PV argument goes away in 2023 when battery backup installations themselves qualify for the new credits (I believe back to 30%) without needing to be attached to a PV array.
The argument for bidirectional charging does not go away
The solar/PV argument goes away in 2023 when battery backup installations themselves qualify for the new credits (I believe back to 30%) without needing to be attached to a PV array.
We are talking about what makes sense here, not what makes money. Unfortunately, with the people we have in charge, it is the latter and not the former that's driving the train. It does NOT make sense to pay people to take resources off the market, urgently needed and in critically short supply, to electrify transportation and stow them in their garages - mostly unused if electric utility company reliability promises are to be believed.
 

world2steven

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2022
Threads
22
Messages
108
Reaction score
17
Location
tucson AZ
Vehicles
22 Lightning
mill add this to the list of reasons I won’t soon be touching Ford’s HIS with a 10-foot pole: need to at least wait for the V2H rebate train!

While I’m here, I’ll throw a thought-log on this fire: V2H incentives reach an increasingly small portion of the population, since owning an H is becoming an increasingly rare accomplishment
You might be waiting a long time "for the V2H rebate train". But you do have a point about declining home ownership. There are lots of possibilities for making use of the power stored in EV batteries. Perhaps the wisest acronym to adopt is V2X - vehicle to X. But maybe we need to push V2B - vehicle-to-business - for reasons of expedience. Employers could benefit from the ability to keep the lights on with employee parking lots covered with solar and equipped with bidirectional chargers. Employees could benefit from free $5 a gallon 'gas' provided them while they work. Landlords of multifamily dwellings could benefit by installing bidirectional chargers allowing those employees to use the power for V2R - vehicle to residence.
 

cvalue13

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 24, 2022
Threads
23
Messages
788
Reaction score
752
Location
Austin, Texas
Vehicles
‘22 Lightning ER Lariat
Occupation
Fun-Employed


 


Top