Tonneau Efficiency Data Collection

[greenne]

I guess this will have to do as the std argument thread since we can't argue about what motor oil to use.

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[sotek2345]

I guess this will have to do as the std argument thread since we can't argue about what motor oil to use.

Maybe we can argue over which brand of electrons give the best performance.

 

[cvalue13]

I guess this will have to do as the std argument thread since we can't argue about what motor oil to use.

It seems one can find support for whichever conclusion one prefers! Makes for a perfect discussion topic.

Since someone mentioned Mythbusters, and I miss that show, I looked up the episode.

Their results (using an ICE Dakota single cab and a calibrated fuel flow monitor at both 25 and 55mph), are funny:

1. Tailgate up (control)
2. Tailgate down - worst result (but didn’t scope % reduction)
3. Hard top tonneau - equal to control
4. Mesh tailgate - best result ~5% improvement
5. No tailgate - equal to control

Notice they didn’t try a soft/light tonneau

 

[greenne]

It seems one can find support for whichever conclusion one prefers! Makes for a perfect discussion topic.

Since someone mentioned Mythbusters, and I miss that show, I looked up the episode.

Their results (using an ICE Dakota single cab and a calibrated fuel flow monitor at both 25 and 55mph), are funny:

1. Tailgate up (control)
2. Tailgate down - worst result (but didn’t scope % reduction)
3. Hard top tonneau - equal to control
4. Mesh tailgate - best result ~5% improvement
5. No tailgate - equal to control

Notice they didn’t try a soft/light tonneau

I admire your enthusiasm....I'm just a grumpy old <not really that old--just grumpy> war vet. Usually discussions of this type devolve into all out keyboard war full of fluff, bluster and opinion.. short on actual scientific proof.

But hey..I'll grab my popcorn and watch.

(I will say the effect on range *should* be different than effect on Fuel economy on an ICE. We've seen aerodynamics play a much bigger role with EVs than they do in the fuel economy on an ICE vehicle.)

<GRABBING POPCORN>

 

[cvalue13]

I admire your enthusiasm....I'm just a grumpy old <not really that old--just grumpy> war vet. Usually discussions of this type devolve into all out keyboard war full of fluff, bluster and opinion.. short on actual scientific proof.

thanks sincerely for your service

I sure hadn’t intended to open such a can of worms, but some days you’re the statue and sole days you’re the pigeon!

 

[greenne]

thanks sincerely for your service

I sure hadn’t intended to open such a can of worms, but some days you’re the statue and sole days you’re the pigeon!

Don't take it personal..as we've found out on this board some people just feel the need to argue about anything and everything no matter how trivial...

 

[sotek2345]

Don't take it personal..as we've found out on this board some people just feel the need to argue about anything and everything no matter how trivial...

Welcome to the internet! Please don't feed the trolls too much.

 

[greenne]

Welcome to the internet! Please don't feed the trolls too much.

An oil thread on an automotive forum is like throwing chum into the water....

nom-nom-nom

Can we just go back to arguing about the Ev tax credit OR perhaps the price increases? LOL

 

[IdeaOfTheDayCom]

I think there’s mention that the weight of hard covers does (or is assumed to) further reduce efficiency gains

dunno

The funny thing is tonneau companies have said for years that covers IMPROVE gas efficiency, and I do remember seeing the Mythbusters episode that basically said variations of "sort of" and "sometimes", and in all cases, whatever change was tiny.

From what I remember, the best case was open top, with the tailgate down, so everything that followed it was a loss of some sort, but when the tailgate is up, a cover should still improve the wind drag just a bit... Hard vs soft is debatable too. In theory a hard cover would have smoother drag, but it also weighs more, so it's probably a draw.

 

[cvalue13]

Can we just go back to arguing about the Ev tax credit OR perhaps the price increases? LOL

can’t wait for the IRS to issue guidance on battery critical minerals composition rules

perhaps that is the new “oil type” for EVs?

 

[greenne]

can’t wait for the IRS to issue guidance on battery critical minerals composition rules

perhaps that is the new “oil type” for EVs?

True...that's gonna be a hoot.

There could be a very real possibility that one year would be eligible and the next year not. A delivery of Dec 30 would get the credit, whereas a delivery of the same vehicle on jan 3 would be out of luck.

Its gonna be a crapshow for sure...

 

[sotek2345]

True...that's gonna be a hoot.

There could be a very real possibility that one year would be eligible and the next year not. A delivery of Dec 30 would get the credit, whereas a delivery of the same vehicle on jan 3 would be out of luck.

Its gonna be a crapshow for sure...

Hey, they could go even more nuts and track it on a per VIN basis! This VIN had 39.9% so it doesn't qualify, but the next VIN has 40.2% so it does. no way to know when you order!

 

[LightningShow]

Admitting that I’m bad at searching (usefully) these forums, has anyone yet made concerted efforts at data for tonneau efficiency improvements in the Lightning?

Over in the Tesla forums, there seems to be somewhat “accepted” knowledge that hitch-mounted bicycle racks (loaded) can have a ~25% efficiency hit to the MY/MX. This sort of info, like info developing around Lightning towing with differently-shaped trailers, highlights for me the sometimes surprising (?) effects of ugly air chop around out vehicles.

With a pickup truck, the ages-old culprit of purported efficient issues is the tailgate/bed. Even ICE drivers have been known to run net-gates or gate-deletes.

What might be the best formulated test for us F150L drivers regarding the efficiency gains (if any) of a tonneau?

Control - absent tonneau:

• 100% SoC departure on a 100+ mile, out-and-back, 60mph (attempted) average speed (at highway)
• Return charge to 100% with accurate kWh measure?

Then test the control with a duplicate run + tonneau?

If we could get 3-4 such runs from folks, it might give us a back-of-napkin estimate of tailgate/tonneau effects to range?

By no means am I agile or experienced in any of this, so here attempting only to learn from those many more experienced here.

On one hand, I’m inclined to think a tonneau would have a measurable effect; on the other hand, if giving the benefit of doubt to Ford they have considered this when not offering a tonneau as standard?

Good news! My tonneau is coming in tomorrow and I plan to run my own efficiency test. At the very least, it should be entertaining to see people argue about the results. I really don't give a flying feck whether it does anything, or not, it's just to satisfy my own curiosity and do something interesting with my time.

My test plan is as follows:

1.) Choose a 40-50 mile loop starting at a DCFC.
2.) Charge to 80% at the DCFC
3.) Run the loop once to ensure the starting condition for the first test run is analogous to later runs ("conditioning run" data will be thrown out)
4.) At the end of the run, charge back to 80%
5.) Stop charging at exactly the point that the DCFC readout turns to 80% and record kWh delivered (I'll try to use the same station if I can)
6.) Repeat 3 more times, alternating between tonneau on/off.


My prediction: No matter what the data says no one will change their mind about whether it helps or not.

 

[LightningShow]

Hey, they could go even more nuts and track it on a per VIN basis! This VIN had 39.9% so it doesn't qualify, but the next VIN has 40.2% so it does. no way to know when you order!

Anything that adds more bureaucracy is a win in Washington!

 

[cvalue13]

Good news! My tonneau is coming in tomorrow and I plan to run my own efficiency test. At the very least, it should be entertaining to see people argue about the results. I really don't give a flying feck whether it does anything, or not, it's just to satisfy my own curiosity and do something interesting with my time.

My test plan is as follows:

1.) Choose a 40-50 mile loop starting at a DCFC.
2.) Charge to 80% at the DCFC
3.) Run the loop once to ensure the starting condition for the first test run is analogous to later runs ("conditioning run" data will be thrown out)
4.) At the end of the run, charge back to 80%
5.) Stop charging at exactly the point that the DCFC readout turns to 80% and record kWh delivered (I'll try to use the same station if I can)
6.) Repeat 3 more times, alternating between tonneau on/off.


My prediction: No matter what the data says no one will change their mind about whether it helps or not.

It’s funny, as much as I don’t practically care much about the outcome here, I have been thinking about this - and something came to mind

I went and google-searched pickup truck class entries in the various Bonneville Salt Flats classes for land speed competition - and while my search wasn’t exhaustive, I didn’t find a single example without a tonneau (and they aren’t adding that weight for storage)

that research includes finding the F-250 Super Duty that in 2011 broke both the top speed record for a B Production Diesel Truck as well as for a B20 bio-diesel truck too…… over 171mph btw

that’s a hard tonneau back there

I would think these salt flat racers have thought through this and have some data to support their aero-choices

would be cool for an experienced salt flat truck class racer to come through and provide insight

EDIT TO ADD: I did find one comment reporting that a famous sale flat builder purported to have data that in fact the optimum setup was a tonneau that covered only 1/2 to 2/3 of the back of the bed, data-supported, something about creating low pressure area or some such - and I did see in my brief look one example of what appears to be a setup comporting with that

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