Drag Race: Ford Lightning vs Tesla Model 3 Performance

sotek2345 · Jun 16, 2022

Just got done watching this. At one point they showed the gauge cluster and they were only around 50% state of charge. I wonder how much more was in it at 90%+?

vandy1981 · Jun 16, 2022

sotek2345 said:
Just got done watching this. At one point they showed the gauge cluster and they were only around 50% state of charge. I wonder how much more was in it at 90%+?

I bet @OutofSpecKyle & co. are working on this. It would be interesting to see head-to-head comparisons with the R1T at various states of charge. I'd also love to see a head to head between the F150L and TRX. The F150L beat the TRX's 1/4 mile time, even with a 50% SOC.

sotek2345 · Jun 16, 2022

vandy1981 said:
I bet @OutofSpecKyle & co. are working on this. It would be interesting to see head-to-head comparisons with the R1T at various states of charge. I'd also love to see a head to head between the F150L and TRX. The F150L beat the TRX's 1/4 mile time, even with a 50% SOC.

Yeah, but that was a very poor time for the TRX. Remember, TFL are filming at altitude, so all of the ICE vehicles are handicapped.

OutofSpecKyle · Jun 16, 2022

I think drag racing is pretty silly tbh so we always save it for last and get the important testing out first.

Skidrowe · Jun 16, 2022

sotek2345 said:
Just got done watching this. At one point they showed the gauge cluster and they were only around 50% state of charge. I wonder how much more was in it at 90%+?

This is affected by the physics of how batteries work. On my motorcycle, quarter mile E/Ts and race laps are always faster when the battery is above 90% SOC and power/performance goes down as the SOC drops. I don't have a complete enough comprehension of the physics to describe it in detail or proper layman terms, so here's an explanation to a similar question from a reddit post. Smarter people can feel free to correct me or this quote if it's inaccurate.

Yes, lithium-ion battery BEVs lose ~29% of their power as the voltage drops from 4.2v per cell down to ~3.0v per cell.

Also, the battery's ability to provide full power is very much limited when the cells are at under 3.5v per cell, so generally, auto manufacturers limit power output at low state of charge.

The only way that this can be counteracted is if the car's BMS/software reduces power output on the top end (let's say it could provide 150kW at full charge and 100kW at 30% SoC, but reduces motor power to 100kW across the board), which would sort of trick you into thinking that your power isn't being reduced when at a low SoC, but this is simply a parlor trick, and doesn't change the fundamental capabilities of the battery chemistry.

Another way that BEV manufacturers can reduce the effect of this power loss is by limiting the band of SoC. The Chevy Volt does this by only letting you use ~15% SoC to ~85% SoC, and this limits the power loss somewhat on the low end because you never get super close to 0% SoC.

Skidrowe · Jun 16, 2022

OutofSpecKyle said:
I think drag racing is pretty silly tbh so we always save it for last and get the important testing out first.

Because of the lack of transmission, near constant torque, and lack of tunable engine components, I agree with you that the drag strip doesn't provide much value other than measuring how fast an electric car can run a quarter mile. Most of the fun comes from it simply being faster and more consistent than most ICE vehicles.

It is an incredibly valuable tool when combined with logging engine data for tuning an ICE vehicle. So many dyno tunes hit peak numbers in 3rd gear, but barely increase a car's trap or lap times. With the quarter mile runs, you can see where the power bands are for each gear and ensure that an automatic transmission tune is shifting at the proper points during WOT, and that the engine nanny's aren't retarding timing and other factors differently than desired based on heat soak and pre-ignition. I'm not a tuner, but I've seen the best performing tunes come from drag tested data vs. dyno data.

vandy1981 · Jun 16, 2022

OutofSpecKyle said:
I think drag racing is pretty silly tbh so we always save it for last and get the important testing out first.

You're right, but that doesn't diminish my need to see a Smart EV vs. Lightning drag race.

williams · Jun 16, 2022

Was this an ER or standard range? I cant hear him at work and curious if they have the same truck from last week that was a standard range?

sotek2345 · Jun 16, 2022

williams said:
Was this an ER or standard range? I cant hear him at work and curious if they have the same truck from last week that was a standard range?

This is the ER truck that they bought.

williams · Jun 16, 2022

sotek2345 said:
This is the ER truck that they bought.

Thank you kindly, I was hoping for a little more quickness. Theres nothing to be done once mine gets here which takes some fun away. Only thing that drove me crazy with the Tesla. Here it is, as fast as its going to be. I only want that 0-60 to get cut. Still a sub 13 full size weighing 3.5 tons

sotek2345 · Jun 16, 2022

williams said:
Thank you kindly, I was hoping for a little more quickness. Theres nothing to be done once mine gets here which takes some fun away. Only thing that drove me crazy with the Tesla. Here it is, as fast as its going to be. I only want that 0-60 to get cut. Still a sub 13 full size weighing 3.5 tons

A higher state of charge would help improve the numbers. They were at around 50%

TaxmanHog · Jun 16, 2022

https://bandimere.com/track-facts/

Wsh68 · Jun 16, 2022

OutofSpecKyle said:
I think drag racing is pretty silly tbh so we always save it for last and get the important testing out first.

Kyle,
sure enjoying your stuff these days. Very granular to feed our nerdism. somewhat Of a showboat idea but how about a tug of war like what Elon was showing at the Cybertruck announcement between the R1T and Lightning?

SteffanG · Jun 16, 2022

The thing I find odd is if you look at all the runs, it almost appears they were speed limited. Every run is between 104.32 and 104.5mph. For the 6 runs that is a little too close of a speed to not be a speed limiter.

Drag Race: Ford Lightning vs Tesla Model 3 Performance

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