Driver Assistance Challenge: Ford F-150 Lightning Takes On The Hogback Driver Test - by OutofSpec

Mr. Flibble · Jun 17, 2022

Nice to see the comparison on the same route to other cars.

It did a lot better than I expected it would. I expect this will get a lot of OTA updates in the future. The lack of beeping for some points of control is something that I agree with Kyle, that should be a thing.

Vorador · Jun 17, 2022

It did decently, though for some reason it seemed to prefer to steer towards large vehicles instead of away. I think with time Ford will have good performing driver assistance.

hturnerfamily · Jun 18, 2022

after watching Kyle have fun 'learning' how the Blue Cruise and ACTIVE system works within the LIGHTNING, it makes me think of my own time within both my brand New KIA SORENTO PHEV Sx Prestige with 'ACTIVE' mode, as well as a recent trip from GA to TX to Ford's Lightning DRIVE event, in a Tesla Long-Range Model 3, with 'ACTIVE' driving systems.
I think all three of these are going to have similar characteristics, but yes, some seem to do it with more 'ease' and 'comfort' than the others. None are perfect, and all three will have there own 'flaws' that we want the manufacturer to immediately solve with OTA updates, if that's even possible. Let's hope it is.

Blue Cruise, with it's additional 'eye scanning' sensors and equipment, is not really 'different', other than using your 'eyes' to replace the 'grab the wheel' periodic requirement. I like the idea, but after Kyle's experience, it seems that a 'notification alert' of some sort that alerts you that the Blue Cruise is no longer active seems appropriate, although the system is still in 'ACTIVE' mode, and still 'maintaining the lane', just like you would expect. You'll now have the 'grab the wheel' alert periodically, unless the Blue Cruise 'reactivates' in the meantime. Yes, a little confusing at first, but I'll bet that it's something most drivers will get used to, especially since Blue Cruise is really only available on specific 'mapped' interstate type highways. It's not something that's going to be an 'everyday' system that gets used.
'ACTIVE', on the other hand, is available in all three of the models I mentioned above, and is terrific. You get used to the 'grad the wheel' notification that happens, sometimes more often on some models than others, but is easy to get used to. I found it VERY relaxing to drive many, many miles on interstates and even other 'roads' without the need to constantly be managing the 'lane centering' yourself. That's a BIG deal. Your body gets tired because your mind is constantly at work keeping your vehicle in the lane - this 'lane centering' technology does a great job of allowing you to then 'relax' much of the time. No, lane centering is not always perfect, and some do it better than others - meaning that, yes, you must still remain 'in control', or 'aware' of what is coming up, ESPECIALLY off ramps and areas where road striping and/or dashes might not be as visable...
The Tesla tried to take me off several 'off ramps', although that's certainly NOT what I wanted or was expecting! This can happen with any of these three vehicles, but with the Tesla I found that to 'take over command' by grabbing and straightening the wheel when this happens is terrifying - it will take a certain amount of 'torque' with the wheel to 'break' the system, and when it happens, the car can suddenly JERK hard in the direction you are now turning it. This is NOT good. This should NOT be the case when you want to 'take over'.
The KIA, on the other hand, does a GREAT job of allowing the driver to take over and does NOT in any way 'jerk' or act as if it doesn't want you to move the wheel - it easily ALLOWS it, and it is a SMOOTH transition. So, if you do find yourself in a situation where road striping and an 'off ramp' come into play, you can easily take in back into the center of the lane to remain in control - the car then automatically REMAINS in 'ACTIVE' mode as you release the wheel again. Easy. Smooth. Nice.
I will agree with Kyle, as he experienced with the LIGHTNING, that when you 'take over' the wheel and make sure the vehicle stays in the lane, it should automatically 'reactivate' the ACTIVE lane centering mode without the driver having to do anything else - it does, and it should, and that's exactly what a driver EXPECTS. But, unfortunately, it's NOT what the Tesla does. The Tesla DEACTIVATES the Active Drive system whenever you 'take over', and then you must physically Activate it AGAIN, by pulling down the right stalk(at least on the Model 3 LR). Maybe Tesla made this their 'default' for safety reasons, but I think the opposite is reality - most any driver who originally activated the 'auto' system would think that the system will REMAIN active, even if they have to take over and 'correct' the vehicle. This IS correct, and does make for a more easy and comfortable ride, as these things ARE going to happen, and SHOULD be easy to handle. Having to 'reactivate' the system is NOT intuitive.

Adaptive CRUISE Control: This, on all three, is an absolute MUST for 'ACTIVE' automated driving. While we all love the steering to be handled by the vehicle, it must also MAINTAIN the safe distance from other vehicles in front of it, which then also removes the onus of constant worry from the driver. You never know what other vehicles are going to do, or how they may react to their own situations, so the vehicle needs the ability to monitor and control that distance between you and others. And, I'll say that all three look to do that nicely. I know with both the Tesla and the KIA you can also control the 'distance' the sensors use to start the slowing, or braking, when a vehicle comes into view, or changes into your lane ahead of you. While I use the maximum, since I'm rarely in a 'hurry', you can also choose the minimum distance, if you are comfortable with that. What I like about this system is that it works EVERYWHERE, not just big roads - but in town, in HEAVY traffic, anywhere. This, along with the Cruise SPEED you set, allows the vehicle to slow, brake, and then increase the speed to go back to 'driving' after it has sensed a need to slow down, or even come to a complete STOP. It's terrific. You'll never want to 'go back' to manual driving, especially in heavy traffic, ever again!

For those of us who have a model coming with either only CoPilot360 2.0, like on my PRO, or the 'ASSIST' version, will not have all these elements of 'automated' driving, but we WILL have many aspects that work less 'automated', but are still nice as 'alerts' to help us along the way.
The base version is more about alerts, with little 'self driving' automation. I'm not sure I'll like that in my PRO, since I'm used to the terrific features in our KIA PHEV, but maybe a later OTA can come into play.
The ASSIST version will allow for additional 'automated' features, like Adaptive Cruise control, I believe, but might not provide 'lane centering', and certainly not Blue Cruise, since that takes the additional equipment/sensors.

'BRAKE HOLD' is another terrific option, maybe only in the ACTIVE version in the LIGHTNING, but is a part of our KIA - I absolutely LOVE it. Your FOOT will LOVE it! Again, once you get 'used' to it, especially in HEAVY stop-and-go traffic, you'll NEVER want to go back!

While I understand that 'Blue Cruise' and it's additional equipment/sensors might not be something that will ever be available without it being installed at the factory, it seems that if enough sensors are already built in to most models/trims, maybe OTA can be a source of upgrading to the ASSIST and ACTIVE versions for us PRO and XLT owners. I hope so.

adoublee · Jun 18, 2022

Happy for the test and video, but a very gamable test by manufacturers with the location consistent and publicized. Not saying any have to date, just a concern as scores imorove.

RDeFran · Jun 18, 2022

That was a lot of 'punctuation', but very 'informative'.

VTbuckeye · Jun 18, 2022

hturnerfamily said:
after watching Kyle have fun 'learning' how the Blue Cruise and ACTIVE system works within the LIGHTNING, it makes me think of my own time within both my brand New KIA SORENTO PHEV Sx Prestige with 'ACTIVE' mode, as well as a recent trip from GA to TX to Ford's Lightning DRIVE event, in a Tesla Long-Range Model 3, with 'ACTIVE' driving systems.
I think all three of these are going to have similar characteristics, but yes, some seem to do it with more 'ease' and 'comfort' than the others. None are perfect, and all three will have there own 'flaws' that we want the manufacturer to immediately solve with OTA updates, if that's even possible. Let's hope it is.

Blue Cruise, with it's additional 'eye scanning' sensors and equipment, is not really 'different', other than using your 'eyes' to replace the 'grab the wheel' periodic requirement. I like the idea, but after Kyle's experience, it seems that a 'notification alert' of some sort that alerts you that the Blue Cruise is no longer active seems appropriate, although the system is still in 'ACTIVE' mode, and still 'maintaining the lane', just like you would expect. You'll now have the 'grab the wheel' alert periodically, unless the Blue Cruise 'reactivates' in the meantime. Yes, a little confusing at first, but I'll bet that it's something most drivers will get used to, especially since Blue Cruise is really only available on specific 'mapped' interstate type highways. It's not something that's going to be an 'everyday' system that gets used.
'ACTIVE', on the other hand, is available in all three of the models I mentioned above, and is terrific. You get used to the 'grad the wheel' notification that happens, sometimes more often on some models than others, but is easy to get used to. I found it VERY relaxing to drive many, many miles on interstates and even other 'roads' without the need to constantly be managing the 'lane centering' yourself. That's a BIG deal. Your body gets tired because your mind is constantly at work keeping your vehicle in the lane - this 'lane centering' technology does a great job of allowing you to then 'relax' much of the time. No, lane centering is not always perfect, and some do it better than others - meaning that, yes, you must still remain 'in control', or 'aware' of what is coming up, ESPECIALLY off ramps and areas where road striping and/or dashes might not be as visable...
The Tesla tried to take me off several 'off ramps', although that's certainly NOT what I wanted or was expecting! This can happen with any of these three vehicles, but with the Tesla I found that to 'take over command' by grabbing and straightening the wheel when this happens is terrifying - it will take a certain amount of 'torque' with the wheel to 'break' the system, and when it happens, the car can suddenly JERK hard in the direction you are now turning it. This is NOT good. This should NOT be the case when you want to 'take over'.
The KIA, on the other hand, does a GREAT job of allowing the driver to take over and does NOT in any way 'jerk' or act as if it doesn't want you to move the wheel - it easily ALLOWS it, and it is a SMOOTH transition. So, if you do find yourself in a situation where road striping and an 'off ramp' come into play, you can easily take in back into the center of the lane to remain in control - the car then automatically REMAINS in 'ACTIVE' mode as you release the wheel again. Easy. Smooth. Nice.
I will agree with Kyle, as he experienced with the LIGHTNING, that when you 'take over' the wheel and make sure the vehicle stays in the lane, it should automatically 'reactivate' the ACTIVE lane centering mode without the driver having to do anything else - it does, and it should, and that's exactly what a driver EXPECTS. But, unfortunately, it's NOT what the Tesla does. The Tesla DEACTIVATES the Active Drive system whenever you 'take over', and then you must physically Activate it AGAIN, by pulling down the right stalk(at least on the Model 3 LR). Maybe Tesla made this their 'default' for safety reasons, but I think the opposite is reality - most any driver who originally activated the 'auto' system would think that the system will REMAIN active, even if they have to take over and 'correct' the vehicle. This IS correct, and does make for a more easy and comfortable ride, as these things ARE going to happen, and SHOULD be easy to handle. Having to 'reactivate' the system is NOT intuitive.

Adaptive CRUISE Control: This, on all three, is an absolute MUST for 'ACTIVE' automated driving. While we all love the steering to be handled by the vehicle, it must also MAINTAIN the safe distance from other vehicles in front of it, which then also removes the onus of constant worry from the driver. You never know what other vehicles are going to do, or how they may react to their own situations, so the vehicle needs the ability to monitor and control that distance between you and others. And, I'll say that all three look to do that nicely. I know with both the Tesla and the KIA you can also control the 'distance' the sensors use to start the slowing, or braking, when a vehicle comes into view, or changes into your lane ahead of you. While I use the maximum, since I'm rarely in a 'hurry', you can also choose the minimum distance, if you are comfortable with that. What I like about this system is that it works EVERYWHERE, not just big roads - but in town, in HEAVY traffic, anywhere. This, along with the Cruise SPEED you set, allows the vehicle to slow, brake, and then increase the speed to go back to 'driving' after it has sensed a need to slow down, or even come to a complete STOP. It's terrific. You'll never want to 'go back' to manual driving, especially in heavy traffic, ever again!

For those of us who have a model coming with either only CoPilot360 2.0, like on my PRO, or the 'ASSIST' version, will not have all these elements of 'automated' driving, but we WILL have many aspects that work less 'automated', but are still nice as 'alerts' to help us along the way.
The base version is more about alerts, with little 'self driving' automation. I'm not sure I'll like that in my PRO, since I'm used to the terrific features in our KIA PHEV, but maybe a later OTA can come into play.
The ASSIST version will allow for additional 'automated' features, like Adaptive Cruise control, I believe, but might not provide 'lane centering', and certainly not Blue Cruise, since that takes the additional equipment/sensors.

'BRAKE HOLD' is another terrific option, maybe only in the ACTIVE version in the LIGHTNING, but is a part of our KIA - I absolutely LOVE it. Your FOOT will LOVE it! Again, once you get 'used' to it, especially in HEAVY stop-and-go traffic, you'll NEVER want to go back!

While I understand that 'Blue Cruise' and it's additional equipment/sensors might not be something that will ever be available without it being installed at the factory, it seems that if enough sensors are already built in to most models/trims, maybe OTA can be a source of upgrading to the ASSIST and ACTIVE versions for us PRO and XLT owners. I hope so.

Our volvos have pilot assist (adaptive cruise plus lane centering). One thing I like about the older one is that I can turn lane centering on and off with the press of a button on the steering wheel. The newer one behaved that way until April 2021, when an update moved that function into a toggle buried in a menu. It is still seamless to override its steering control (like your kia description). Once I drove with adaptive cruise I never wanted to go back to the old way (my wife wouldn't care either way as she never uses cruise control). I'm not advocating tailgating, but with adaptive cruise on the closest setting you can drive close enough to large trucks to get some drag reduction benefits without being TOO CLOSE. Also if they slow down it will react as fast, if not faster than you will.

Mr. Flibble · Jun 18, 2022

adoublee said:
Happy for the test and video, but a very gamable test by manufacturers with the location consistent and publicized. Not saying any have to date, just a concern as scores imorove.

I am sure that manufacturers could game the test at this location. Though, the work undertaken to game the test at that location should be in-line with better driving overall. You can't factor in things like the traffic, and Bluecruise had a couple issues with traffic - nothing major, but it was still there.

merek · Jun 19, 2022

I just hope that Ford sees the moderate subscription fee for BlueCruise as a good enough incentive to continue to push improvements to vehicles that are not the current model year.

People like free stuff, but I would rather pay for things if it means that we get reasonable software updates past delivery, which historically hasn't really been a priority for automakers other than Tesla.

Mr. Flibble · Jun 19, 2022

merek said:
I just hope that Ford sees the moderate subscription fee for BlueCruise as a good enough incentive to continue to push improvements to vehicles that are not the current model year.

People like free stuff, but I would rather pay for things if it means that we get reasonable software updates past delivery, which historically hasn't really been a priority for automakers other than Tesla.

If Bluecruse is a subscription, I don't think I would keep up with it. This is because, at least on our local rural highway I have yet to see an automated driving system that does not go haywire on a twisty single-lane road. They are all pretty terrifying.

merek · Jun 19, 2022

Mr. Flibble said:
If Bluecruse is a subscription, I don't think I would keep up with it. This is because, at least on our local rural highway I have yet to see an automated driving system that does not go haywire on a twisty single-lane road. They are all pretty terrifying.

BlueCruise is only included for 3yr I think...

Hands free BlueCruise is also only to be used on pre-mapped divided highways.

Mr. Flibble · Jun 19, 2022

merek said:
BlueCruise is only included for 3yr I think...

Hands free BlueCruise is also only to be used on pre-mapped divided highways.

Yeah, and I cannot imagine trying hands free on my local highway with any tech. So far I have seen Kia, Tesla and Subaru try it on our local highway. None of them have properly maintained lane centering. Hitting the rumble strip in the centerline, or crossing over the fog-line to the ditch is a common experience. Never tried it long enough to see if it would crash, but it sure feels like it is trying to do exactly that.

Probably great on the big freeways, but otherwise, not something I trust.

Amps · Jun 19, 2022

Mr. Flibble said:
I am sure that manufacturers could game the test at this location.

They could. But, I see no reason why they would. Manufacturers, YouTubers, truck builders, etc. test on this stretch of I-70 is that it's one of the most challenging stretches of interstate highways in the country. It's got heavy traffic, is well-mapped, has lining and pavement challenges, and also in a fairly central location. I don't think Donner Pass on I-80 is as difficult.

millim · Jun 20, 2022

merek said:
BlueCruise is only included for 3yr I think...

Hands free BlueCruise is also only to be used on pre-mapped divided highways.

Has there been any information released regarding how Ford intends to improve the Blue Cruise functionality over time? Said differently, has it been discussed whether they expect step-function enhancements and improvements by the time we need to subscribe (using this hardware), or are “just” incremental improvements to be expected? It’s very possible they haven’t discussed any of it…just wondering.

Mr. Flibble · Jun 20, 2022

millim said:
Has there been any information released regarding how Ford intends to improve the Blue Cruise functionality over time? Said differently, has it been discussed whether they expect step-function enhancements and improvements by the time we need to subscribe (using this hardware), or are “just” incremental improvements to be expected? It’s very possible they haven’t discussed any of it…just wondering.

I remember hearing that they planned to update it over the air incrementally. Here is a segment from the Mustang Mach-E forum:

Ford Power-Up software updates delivered over-the-air (OTA) that include the BlueCruise hands-free driver assist feature starting in the first quarter of 2022. The updates will also include some new features while accelerating the pace of future features and enhancements. OTA software updates could take several weeks before the feature is fully functional.”

jerock · Jun 21, 2022

I am hoping they improve Blue Cruise to support pulling a trailer. Chevrolet supposedly currently supports it.

Driver Assistance Challenge: Ford F-150 Lightning Takes On The Hogback Driver Test - by OutofSpec

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