Is the $30k EV Truck Dead?

[DavidS]

Farley definitely said something contrary to building the 30K truck. Whether that was misspoken or saying what the guy next to him wanted to hear who knows. You can’t build a 30K truck on an ICE platform but you can build one on a ground up EV platform. There won’t be a lot of jobs because it’s also going to require automation to keep labor costs low. Ford managed to reduce Lighting labor over time but the initial run was practically hand built. The big unknown here is battery costs and steel and Aluminum costs. If Ford can capitalize on new battery technology and supply chains, they could definitely release a 30k truck.

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[chl]

If the Donut battery is a realty, even less than $30k

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

Farley sucking up to tRump. Won't be good for EV's or Ford.

Is he? Or is he just trying to run a business?

 

[StevenC56]

Is he? Or is he just trying to run a business?

All you have to do is add an I to the word run, and then you ruin a business.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

All you have to do is add an I to the word run, and then you ruin a business.

Ok, 19 words.

 

[Altivec]

If the Donut battery is a realty, even less than $30k

If the donut battery is a realty, then Ford's 30k truck is the least of their worries. A battery that has twice the capacity, safe, cheap to make, does not lose capacity at extreme temps, has a lifespan greater than a human and CHARGES IN 5 MIN. That would mean All ICE vehicles will be dead in the water in very short order.

Ford is too busy designing a truck and factory to build EREV's and doubled down by removing any thought of their best selling vehicle having a BEV version by cancelling the T3. At Ford, their vision of the future is ICE.

Although it's plausible, I think Ford is safe from Donut Labs battery, but it's only a matter of time before the claims made for this battery come true. Ford should just about have its going backwards next gen Lightning EREV out by then. lol

 

[Vegas]

So Ford today has the Maverick - Ranger - F150. So where is this thing suppose to fit and how will it not be a direct competitor to some part of or all three of those models.

I’m sorry, but this doesn’t make sense to me.

The new truck will fit under the Maverick. It will be called the Pinto . LoL.

 

[chl]

If the donut battery is a realty, then Ford's 30k truck is the least of their worries. A battery that has twice the capacity, safe, cheap to make, does not lose capacity at extreme temps, has a lifespan greater than a human and CHARGES IN 5 MIN. That would mean All ICE vehicles will be dead in the water in very short order.

Ford is too busy designing a truck and factory to build EREV's and doubled down by removing any thought of their best selling vehicle having a BEV version by cancelling the T3. At Ford, their vision of the future is ICE.

Although it's plausible, I think Ford is safe from Donut Labs battery, but it's only a matter of time before the claims made for this battery come true. Ford should just about have its going backwards next gen Lightning EREV out by then. lol

As an engineer it seems the donut battery is basically a sodium ion battery with a unique design.

All the major battery makers and EV companies have sodium ion battery R&D going on.

The safety (no thermal runaway dangers) long lifespan of 100k or more charge cycle and fast charging are inherent in sodium ion batteries which is why everybody is pursuing them. Another reason is they do not need exotic metals, Li etc., and so they will be inexpensive to make and non-toxic to the environment.

What makes this donut battery such a breakthrough is the titanium and carbon nano tube design that give it high energy density in a compact lightweight package.

We'll see soon enough how well it works in a real world motorcycle with the donut motor.

I am optimistic.

If it proves itself, it would cut the cost of producing an EV enormously!

 

[Altivec]

I am cautiously optimistic as well but at the same time I've heard so many too good to be true stories, only for them to be disappointments. I’ll believe it when I see it. If even half the specs are true, that is a good push forward in battery tech.

In my opinion, range is not the biggest factor holding back EV adoption, charging time is. I don’t think too many people would have any problems with the Lightnings 320 mile range, if you could charge it up in 5min. That is gas station equivalent speeds. If that spec in the donut battery remains to be true, I believe the tipping point for mass EV adoption is near.

 

[chl]

I am cautiously optimistic as well but at the same time I've heard so many too good to be true stories, only for them to be disappointments. I’ll believe it when I see it. If even half the specs are true, that is a good push forward in battery tech.

In my opinion, range is not the biggest factor holding back EV adoption, charging time is. I don’t think too many people would have any problems with the Lightnings 320 mile range, if you could charge it up in 5min. That is gas station equivalent speeds. If that spec in the donut battery remains to be true, I believe the tipping point for mass EV adoption is near.

Yes, that is an inherent characteristic of sodium ion based battery technology, the fast charging. That's why big names in EVs and batteries are throwing so much R&D money into it.

One of the drawbacks so far has been the energy density per unit of weight and size.

If the nano tube design conquers that issue, it will be a game changer.

 

[chl]

I am cautiously optimistic as well but at the same time I've heard so many too good to be true stories, only for them to be disappointments. I’ll believe it when I see it. If even half the specs are true, that is a good push forward in battery tech.

In my opinion, range is not the biggest factor holding back EV adoption, charging time is. I don’t think too many people would have any problems with the Lightnings 320 mile range, if you could charge it up in 5min. That is gas station equivalent speeds. If that spec in the donut battery remains to be true, I believe the tipping point for mass EV adoption is near.

Range has always been a big issue to my wife, along with the related issue of charge station scarcity.

 

[Maxx]

You would think they learned from the last time (and from watching the Cybertruck debacle).

Speaking of learning from CT, make sure your regen works:

 

[Altivec]

Range has always been a big issue to my wife, along with the related issue of charge station scarcity.

Not sure how approx 300 miles of range would be a problem if it gets charged back up in 5min. I didn't get that much more out of my gas trucks before I needed to fill up for 5mins. When it comes to scarcity of charge stations. Once the tipping point of mass adoption to EV's happen, that won't be the case and the reverse will start to happen as gas stations convert to charge stations. If 5min charges are possible, charge stations would not need to acquire huge amounts of expensive land to put 30 stalls in, they could follow the same gas station model and just replace the pumps with chargers because wait times are just as short. This would also solve to drive through trailer stall problem.

 

[chl]

Not sure how approx 300 miles of range would be a problem if it gets charged back up in 5min. I didn't get that much more out of my gas trucks before I needed to fill up for 5mins. When it comes to scarcity of charge stations. Once the tipping point of mass adoption to EV's happen, that won't be the case and the reverse will start to happen as gas stations convert to charge stations. If 5min charges are possible, charge stations would not need to acquire huge amounts of expensive land to put 30 stalls in, they could follow the same gas station model and just replace the pumps with chargers because wait times are just as short. This would also solve to drive through trailer stall problem.

I agree on those points.
I the NACL battery tech is for real, a game changer.
Now the NEVI money has gotten freed up (by court order) there will be more charging stations put in.
I am surprised more gas stations have not invested in chargers.

Walmart was supposed to build a network of stations on their lots, but haven't heard much about that lately...none near me yet.

https://www.walmart.com/cp/ev/9145505

 

[WXman]

Not sure how approx 300 miles of range would be a problem if it gets charged back up in 5min. I didn't get that much more out of my gas trucks before I needed to fill up for 5mins. When it comes to scarcity of charge stations. Once the tipping point of mass adoption to EV's happen, that won't be the case and the reverse will start to happen as gas stations convert to charge stations. If 5min charges are possible, charge stations would not need to acquire huge amounts of expensive land to put 30 stalls in, they could follow the same gas station model and just replace the pumps with chargers because wait times are just as short. This would also solve to drive through trailer stall problem.

You must have missed the enormous recent thread discussing why there are few charge stations, and will continue to be few charge stations in the future. To heavily summarize, it costs a FORTUNE. Building them costs millions, getting the electricity to them is subject to heavy fees (called tariffs in utility company lingo), and maintenance is high because the are typically out in the weather 24/7/365 unlike fuel pumps. This has drastically slowed EV charger deployment and it is not a problem that will be solved any time soon.

And if you think gas station owners are going to readily spend tens of millions to convert their trustworthy pumps for EV chargers, I have some beautiful ocean front property in Kansas for sale.

The current problems with EVs, particularly trucks, are: range, charge speed, and charge logistics. ALL THREE of those things have to be solved before EV will sell more plentifully than ICE in this country. And that is not going to happen in the next 5 years, or 10 years, or….

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