Bigger front battery?

[Adventureboy]

The LVB is charged from 35% to 90% in about 20min, so charging speed shouldn't be much of an issue unless its in the dead of winter and you're taking the whole family 5 miles fown tge road with heated seats, cabin heater and defroster running, at that point you might end up with less SoC than you started with, but during normal circumstances this should not be a common occurrence.

If people are still concerned due to short commutes, don't shut the truck off, let it run and shut itself off after 30min.

Unfortunately, this only works if you drive daily. It doesn't work if you don't.

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[mr.Magoo]

Unfortunately, this only works if you drive daily. It doesn't work if you don't.

If your truck goes into deep sleep after only a day and a half it would seem you have other issues and going from a 30Ah battery to 50-60Ah would only delay the inevitable by another day or two.
Bad battery, extra loads, PAAK and the truck is within range while in the garage (and constantly wakes up) or whatever it might be.

Mine can sit for a week or two without any issues.

 

[Adventureboy]

If your truck goes into deep sleep after only a day and a half it would seem you have other issues and going from a 30Ah battery to 50-60Ah would only delay the inevitable by another day or two.
Bad battery, extra loads, PAAK and the truck is within range while in the garage (and constantly wakes up) or whatever it might be.

Mine can sit for a week or two without any issues.

Yes you are right, my LVB is bad - this is the 2nd one in 30 months and 100% due to my irregular driving schedule. I can get a week or more when the LVB is new, same as you, so the truck is normal for a Lightning.

The issue is a lack of daily driving. It only affects a small percentage of us since most drive daily. Given I drive 3-4 times per week, I can go 2, sometimes 3 days without driving, and that kills the LVB over time with repeated deep discharges even when the truck is plugged in, since it won't charge the LVB unless the HVB is charging. It's fine for the first 10 months or so, then the battery degrades enough that I notice the shutdown in my 3-day non-driving window, and the window continuously shortens until I get to where I am now at 1.5 days after about 15 months. 2 LVBs, same driving pattern, same degradation pattern. I've installed a battery maintainer, but too late to save this LVB. A battery maintainer shouldn't be needed with 131kwh under the floorboards. Also, Ford should adjust the LVB charge profile to maintain the LVB, when plugged in.

Also agree that stepping from a 30AH to a 50AH may not help, but I might give it a try and report back.

If you drive daily, you won't see this issue. I probably just need to drive more

 

[I <3 My Lightning]

(If you don't have max tow), why not just add a smaller capacity motorcycle agm next to the battery and either wire it to work together or with a switch to use as your already set up jump start or for when you know you are completing a major overnight update? That little bit of extra capacity is all you probably need.

Just an idea and overkill, but could be a fun little project. I would expect all of you experts to chime in on feasibility, issues and so forth.

 

[Maquis]

Yes you are right, my LVB is bad - this is the 2nd one in 30 months and 100% due to my irregular driving schedule. I can get a week or more when the LVB is new, same as you, so the truck is normal for a Lightning.

The issue is a lack of daily driving. It only affects a small percentage of us since most drive daily. Given I drive 3-4 times per week, I can go 2, sometimes 3 days without driving, and that kills the LVB over time with repeated deep discharges even when the truck is plugged in, since it won't charge the LVB unless the HVB is charging. It's fine for the first 10 months or so, then the battery degrades enough that I notice the shutdown in my 3-day non-driving window, and the window continuously shortens until I get to where I am now at 1.5 days after about 15 months. 2 LVBs, same driving pattern, same degradation pattern. I've installed a battery maintainer, but too late to save this LVB. A battery maintainer shouldn't be needed with 131kwh under the floorboards. Also, Ford should adjust the LVB charge profile to maintain the LVB, when plugged in.

Also agree that stepping from a 30AH to a 50AH may not help, but I might give it a try and report back.

If you drive daily, you won't see this issue. I probably just need to drive more

I rarely drive more than 3 days a week and my truck often sits for a week or more. It will go into deep sleep sometime after a week or so - I haven’t bothered to figure out exactly when. Just did my 10K service and the truck is 28 months old. I’ve never had any issues with my 12V battery.

 

[Adventureboy]

I rarely drive more than 3 days a week and my truck often sits for a week or more. It will go into deep sleep sometime after a week or so - I haven’t bothered to figure out exactly when. Just did my 10K service and the truck is 28 months old. I’ve never had any issues with my 12V battery.

Yes, I know my patterns aren't normal. My daily morning driveway shuffle to let my wife out/in the garage through the winters exacerbates my problem. I've monitored it for nearly 2 years, and I'm sure it is due to the drive frequency/driveway shuffle. It was no problem with my 2018 ICE F150 before the Lightning - that battery was 5 years old and still strong when I traded it. The Lightning drops 20% SOC after the first hour, then slowly discharges, keeping the modem/Bluetooth live - this is normal. With a healthy LVB, it can go 7-10 days that way. If I do a driveway shuffle, it drops another 20% and another 20% after a 2nd driveway shuffle takes the LVB down below 40% or less on the days I don't drive and do the shuffle.

 

[HOTAS]

Yes, I know my patterns aren't normal. My daily morning driveway shuffle to let my wife out/in the garage through the winters exacerbates my problem. I've monitored it for nearly 2 years, and I'm sure it is due to the drive frequency/driveway shuffle. It was no problem with my 2018 ICE F150 before the Lightning - that battery was 5 years old and still strong when I traded it. The Lightning drops 20% SOC after the first hour, then slowly discharges, keeping the modem/Bluetooth live - this is normal. With a healthy LVB, it can go 7-10 days that way. If I do a driveway shuffle, it drops another 20% and another 20% after a 2nd driveway shuffle takes the LVB down below 40% or less on the days I don't drive and do the shuffle.

Im curious, how do you monitor your LVB SOC ?
I want to ask When and why did you started but I follow it’s because you’ve replaced the LVB a couple times..

 

[Adventureboy]

Im curious, how do you monitor your LVB SOC ?
I want to ask When and why did you started but I follow it’s because you’ve replaced the LVB a couple times..

I use a passive monitor on the battery that collects voltage and SOC data every minute and allows me to graph it. The passive monitor leaves the truck to manage its modules as it normally would rather than use an OBD2 type monitor which keeps modules live longer than normal.

This is my last 5 days.
The voltage data is accurate and gives a very accurate trend showing exact drive/charge cycles. The 15-volt spikes are Truck ON and/or driving events. HBV charge cycles are around 13.5 volts on the LVB. You can even see the negative blips in voltage when the truck lights up one of the modules probably due to a door/frunk open event or me just walking by with my phone. It could also just be the truck checking on itself.

The SOC data is only calculated based on the voltage, so it isn't 100% accurate but shows the trends very well.

You can see the charge cycle early May 4th overnight with the quick drop once the charge cycle has ended and the slower decline in voltage and calculated SOC over the next day before I drove again on end of day May 5th. I plugged in my 5 amp battery maintainer after the drive on May 5th and again on May 6th so the dip is much less significant on those days.

Remember, my LVB is weak so the trends on a healthy battery would be less dramatic.

 

[HOTAS]

I use a passive monitor on the battery that collects voltage and SOC data every minute and allows me to graph it. The passive monitor leaves the truck to manage its modules as it normally would rather than use an OBD2 type monitor which keeps modules live longer than normal.

The SOC data is only calculated based on the voltage, so it isn't 100% accurate but shows the trends very well.

Remember, my LVB is weak so the trends on a healthy battery would be less dramatic.

Very cool insight Into the 12V battery cycles.

I can detect the 12V voltage difference between power off/acc(boot up)/on, when I start the truck,
by listening to my power seat motor.
I typically run my power set forward as I start the truck. The seat motor ramps up twice as it goes from off, thru boot up to on.

All hybrid/EV’S are notoriously hard on their 12V batteries.
My buddy with a Ford Fusion Energi PHEV called me in a panic the other day, sure his HV battery was done after 5 years. Lol.
I calmed him down and suggested it was really just the 12V LVB.
Sure enough, his car is back to normal.
I had the same thing with the Chevy Volt and Prius. When they start showing abnormal behavior after a few years, it’s the 12V.
Tesla changed their 12V management to stop killing the LVB so soon.

 

[mr.Magoo]

I use a passive monitor on the battery that collects voltage and SOC data every minute and allows me to graph it.

Have you checked how much your passive logger is pulling ?
That gradual reduction sure looks like external drain to me.

There's a few PIDs that might be of interest as well if you do use an OBD device,
They're for LVB discharge when the truck is off / in sleep / and on. I'll dig them up when I get home later.

 

[Adventureboy]

Tesla changed their 12V management to stop killing the LVB so soon.

Yes, I've been after Ford to do this for nearly 2 years. A simple 12v maintenance voltage when plugged in during the charge window would solve it for most situations instead of discharging the LVB. Unplugged, don't freak out on a single discharge cycle and keep it between 50-80% for multiple cycles before initiating a shutdown. It takes a very small amount of HVB to charge the LVB - like multiple charges for less than 1% HBV SOC. These simple changes would let the LVB last for 5+ years instead of sucking the life out of it daily.

 

[Adventureboy]

Have you checked how much your passive logger is pulling ?
That gradual reduction sure looks like external drain to me.

There's a few PIDs that might be of interest as well if you do use an OBD device,
They're for LVB discharge when the truck is off / in sleep / and on. I'll dig them up when I get home later.

The passive logger doesn't pull anything measurable on my 1/100th DC Hall effect ammeter.

It might pull a few milliamps when I connect to the Bluetooth to pull the data, but for the most part, it is negligible. I have one on the wife's MME too, and her drain profile is way lighter since she drives 6+ days per week and has fewer modules. Incidentally, the MME tray can fit an H4 with no modifications, although she is still on the original H3 for 34 months now.
I think my drain profile looks excessive because of the weak battery. When the LVB was new, it would take a week for the same discharge. It is probably operating < 50% capacity at the moment. I'm curious if there is a PID for that.
Definitely interested in the PIDs if you can pass them along. I am fully OBD2 enabled with CarScanner and Forscan and even have a J2534 passthru for FDRS, although I only activate the subscription when I want to do updates without waiting for OTA.

 

[Adventureboy]

(If you don't have max tow), why not just add a smaller capacity motorcycle agm next to the battery and either wire it to work together or with a switch to use as your already set up jump start or for when you know you are completing a major overnight update? That little bit of extra capacity is all you probably need.

Just an idea and overkill, but could be a fun little project. I would expect all of you experts to chime in on feasibility, issues and so forth.

That would be similar to stepping from the H3 to the H4. They are the same price and still more expensive than the more popular, higher capacity H5 and H6. I don't think anyone knows for sure how that will work out until one of us tries it. I've never needed to jump start it because the truck shuts down the modules and charges the LVB anyway as I can see on my monitor.

 

[mr.Magoo]

Definitely interested in the PIDs if you can pass them along.

Divide the response by 100, unit is C(oulomb)

Module Address	PID Address	Signal Title	Range
0x726	0x22401C	Cumulative Discharge From Battery in Sleep Mode	(0-10 Cn)
0x726	0x224026	Cumulative Discharge From Battery When Engine Is Off	(0-7 Cn)
0x726	0x224021	Cumulative Discharge From Battery When Engine Is On	(0-10 Cn)

 

[KennyB123]

On my Lightning I’ve installed an H3 (same size as OEM) battery with a higher capacity.

Which battery did you get? I'm interested.

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