12V battery failure while driving 45mph

[chl]

1) it is the DC-DC converter that runs the 12VDC system including charging the 12V battery - the DC-DC converter takes high voltage DC (400V) from the Li battery and steps is down to 12VDC.

2) the "inverters" are used for the Pro Power On Board to take the high voltage DC (400V) and step it down and "invert" it to alternating current voltage (240V and 120V) and provide it to the 120V and 240V (if you have one in the bed) outlets.

---the terminology 'converter' is often used for both converters and inverters colloquially---

3) this battery failure is yet example of the poor management the truck does of the 12v battery - this is a 2023 vehicle so that means the 12v battery died in about 3 years of use - that is poor battery management.

4) just having your truck plugged in to your EVSE will NOT keep the 12v battery charged up - the truck only charges it when A) the truck is on, B) the truck is actively charging the HV battery C) when the 12v battery falls below a low threshold for 48 hours or D) when the 12v battery is even lower.

So, broken record here, every Lightning owner should have their 12v battery on a trickle charger when not in use, period full stop.

-----
Here's the dope - note by "trickle charger" I mean one that is a battery maintainer:

I keep my 12v battery on a trickle charger to avoid premature death (its, not mine) and to ensure OTAs get installed..

Deep discharge, which the lightning algorithm allows, is not good for longevity of these batteries, and the high charging currents seen when the battery is low, are another bad feature of the lightning system of 12v battery management.

This post form the Mach-e forum goes into depth about these 12v AGM batteries:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/how-to-recondition-service-your-12v-battery.11069/


If the details about how AGM battery charging progresses are accurate, the truck will not, on it's own, top off the battery in many cases because of the time it takes. That makes a trickle charger even more important for longevity since it can be on the 12v battery for many hours at a time charging even when the truck HV is not.


And this one about the different ways to charge up the battery to get OTAs:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/how-to-get-failed-otas-to-install.29749/

Also several threads here about putting trickle chargers on the battery and how to make it easier by adding a trickle charger wire:

https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/charging-12v-battery.16979/

This is what I did - I put a wire with an SAE plug on one end through a small hole I drilled next to the charge port hinge where it would not damage anything, and ran it to the battery compartment where I attached it to a fused wire with ring terminals that would fit the 6mm bolts:

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[ZeusDriver]

Turns out the inverter is bad so they ordered a new one.

That seems odd. There is a dc-dc converter that changes HV(dc) to LV(dc), to charge the battery. An inverter changes DC to AC, so they are used to drive the traction motors and to supply ac current to the pro power outlets. You should have them explain how an inverter would affect the low voltage battery.

 

[ZeusDriver]

That seems odd. There is a dc-dc converter that changes HV(dc) to LV(dc), to charge the battery. An inverter changes DC to AC, so they are used to drive the traction motors and to supply ac current to the pro power outlets. You should have them explain how an inverter would affect the low voltage battery.

whoops.. just saw that chi explained all this.

 

[ZeusDriver]

Is it really any different than having an alternator take a dump?

I'd say yes, it is. If an alternator fails on a ICE car, a warning light light illuminates, and you have plenty of time to pull over.

 

[NotPatel]

I have confirmed it is all covered under warranty. The dealer kept telling me they were not sure, so I just reached out to Ford and confirmed the inverter was part of my Powertrain warranty, and anything (battery too) is covered w/o deductible.

They owe me a rental and despite calling them 3x today and being promised a call back EOD, nothing. Will just go to the dealer tomorrow morning and take care of it, or call Ford myself and go to enterprise.

Terrible experience. Love the truck, I hope I never have to deal with this dealer again.

 

[NotPatel]

Regarding ... "On Saturday (1/3), I was driving down the road at 45 miles an hour. No warning, no issues, nothing in my Ford app. I get 28 different warnings (Powertrain failure being one of them) that pop up and the truck just dies like a total brick in the middle of the road. I lose power steering and can’t even put on my flashers. Just a sitting duck."

I suggest you file a NHTSA Safety Complaint on this issue. Stopping in the middle of the road, with no flashers, like a sitting duck, is a life-threatening safety issue.

@Ford Motor Company needs to get on top of this issue very quickly!

Link to NHTSA Safety Complaint:
https://www.nhtsa.gov/report-a-safety-problem

Filled a case already with the NHTSA.

Regarding Ford, was promised a call yesterday, no call. Was promised by 10am today, no call.

Just a bad dealer. Inverter is covered under my Powertrain warranty. So should not have a deductible and should not have issues with a loaner. Dealer is giving me a hard time with both + wants to charge me for the tow.

 

[Lytning]

Filled a case already with the NHTSA.

Regarding Ford, was promised a call yesterday, no call. Was promised by 10am today, no call.

Just a bad dealer. Inverter is covered under my Powertrain warranty. So should not have a deductible and should not have issues with a loaner. Dealer is giving me a hard time with both + wants to charge me for the tow.

@Ford Motor Company
We are all monitoring your response, or lack thereof.

 

[Ford Motor Company]

@Ford Motor Company
We are all monitoring your response, or lack thereof.

I'm chatting with engineering to learn more about what happened, and to help ensure support is provided from the customer care team.

Reminder, I am not an official Ford customer support channel - those are in my signature. I am Brian in the forums who tries to help where I can.

 

[Lytning]

I'm chatting with engineering to learn more about what happened, and to help ensure support is provided from the customer care team.

Reminder, I am not an official Ford customer support channel - those are in my signature. I am Brian in the forums who tries to help where I can.

Thank you for the prompt response, Brian.

You have more pull with Ford than we do. Or, do you? My experience shows that companies which don't respond to their customers, don't respond to their employees.

Integrity, trust and customer service are built upon the small, but important, details. If Ford, and their dealerships, say to a customer they are going to call them on a given day, call them. If you don't have an answer yet, call them anyway and tell the customer that. When you don't call when you say you will, the strong message to the customer is that they are not even important enough for a one minute telephone call. Millions of dollars of advertising are negated, and ill-will created, by the lack of a telephone call.

 

[ZeusDriver]

Reminder, I am not an official Ford customer support channel - those are in my signature.

What do you mean by "signature"? On my screen, you show up as "Official Ford Account." If I click on your avatar, I see no addresses for "Ford customer support channel." Nor do I see any customer support links under "user details" that appear below your avatar.

 

[PJnc284]

What do you mean by "signature"? On my screen, you show up as "Official Ford Account." If I click on your avatar, I see no addresses for "Ford customer support channel." Nor do I see any customer support links under "user details" that appear below your avatar.

Are you on your phone or computer? On the latter, you can see the below

- Brian, not AI, from Ford

If you have an inquiry for Ford, including inquiries related to a quality or safety issue, please contact your local dealership or Ford directly.

Please see all of the ways you can contact us at Contact Us | Ford® Customer Service, Help & Live Chat | Ford.com.
Send us a direct message on the official company pages for assistance: Ford Motor Company Facebook or Ford Motor Company X.

 

[ZeusDriver]

Integrity, trust and customer service are built upon the small, but important, details. If Ford, and their dealerships, say to a customer they are going to call them on a given day, call them. If you don't have an answer yet, call them anyway and tell the customer that. When you don't call when you say you will, the strong message to the customer is that they are not even important enough for a one minute telephone call. Millions of dollars of advertising are negated, and ill-will created, by the lack of a telephone call.

Very well put.

We have all heard "Your phone call is very important to us. Your wait time is 12 minutes." Of course if our phone calls were really important (to company X), we would not be on hold -- the phones would be adequately staffed.

 

[ZeusDriver]

Are you on your phone or computer? On the latter, you can see the below

Thanks. Yes, on the computer, it shows up.

 

[NotPatel]

All, Brian @Ford Motor Company messaged me. Hopefully he is able to help.

Still no call from the dealer. I called them - turns out my advisor doesn't work on Thursday and another advisor said this was not his area and offered to let me pick up the Lightning and bring it back when my advisor is back.

Unless Brian gets back to me EOD, I'm just going to go get my Lightning and take it to another dealer.

 

[NotPatel]

Brian - did they give you a part number for it? I am on the phone with Ford and they want the part number to see if there is warranty coverage for it or not.

I can take the truck back, it is just frustrating that I have deal with my phone as a key not working where that was not an issue in the past.

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