Powerboost Overheated while Towing

[UGADawg96]

Another option is to find another place to live in Florida. Our HOA allows 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks and we also have a CDD and all the other things in FL neighborhoods. However, they don't allow permanent boat and RV storage, but you can bring them for a couple days a month. I'd prefer to park the TT at the house, but we pay for covered storage with AC about 20min away. Maybe you could go back to a 3/4 or 1 ton and park it off site if you don't want to move.

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[PungoteagueDave]

man, if you are getting 5.5mpg, either you are doing something VERY wrong, or your truck is not set up right at all for your application.

I say this because at highway speeds, you are not using the hybrid system at all. It is all the 3.5 EB doing the work. Even when I am towing a roughly 10,500 lbs cargo trailer through the mountains here in Alberta, I am not that low. Worst I have ever encountered was 7.5mpg (32L/100kms).

When I am towing my 7500lbs travel trailer, I am usually around 10-10.5MPG on the flats, and ~8.5 in the mountains.

So, I think you are trying to do to much, and expecting it to be like your F350, which it isn't. No amount of bitching and whining is going to change that. You are angry that your truck can't do the job as well as your 1 ton, but really, you shouldn't be so mad at the truck, you should be mad at the HOA.

As the old addage goes, the right tool for the job, and my friend, it doesn't sound like you have the right tool.

Who said I was mad? Just stating facts. I’m perfectly happy getting 5.5 mpg, knew it was a risk downgrading from the F350. Also not mad at the HOA, knew it was part of the deal to have a gated place in FL on the ICW to live with some restrictions. Admit I didn’t see that specific one coming, but it is all sorted out and working fine, just think folks should know reality vs claims from Ford in terms of towing capacity advertised vs reality (bold vs fine print and further on an off-spec sheet even finer print hidden in an SAE spec footnoted on the Ford specs), and efficiency claims vs real world, as well as what happens when finely tuned hybrid systems get taxed to the max in terms of how they use energy - in my experience less efficiently than systems that are tuned for torque - as you say, right tool for the job.

I acknowledge that my Superduty trucks are a MUCH better option for the three largest trailers that I own AND that I am trying to make a half ton truck do a Superduty truck’s job. That is exactly what Ford is claiming the Powerboost can do. In fact their ads use that term, and so do many reviewers. And in fact, my experience proves it can, sort of - but not nearly as well. I’m am NOT bitching. It is what it is. That’s all.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Not giving up 2 boat slip

Another option is to find another place to live in Florida. Our HOA allows 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks and we also have a CDD and all the other things in FL neighborhoods. However, they don't allow permanent boat and RV storage, but you can bring them for a couple days a month. I'd prefer to park the TT at the house, but we pay for covered storage with AC about 20min away. Maybe you could go back to a 3/4 or 1 ton and park it off site if you don't want to move.

Thanks, but not giving up 2 boat slips on the ICW. We do pay for offsite trailer parking, but another $250/month to park the F-30 plus inconvenience of shuttling six miles each way every time we wanted to use it caused the switch to half ton, given Ford’s claims of towing parity for our needs. Again, it does it okay. I am spending another $12k to replace the trailer now - going from galvanized with brakes on one axle to aluminum with brakes on two axles and a format that will allow weight distribution, plus switching from surge brakes to electric over hydraulic brakes (now available for boat trailers, but not when I bought this trailer in ‘05) - not that this change is required, but just to ge everything inside the margins far enough for my comfort after thsi summer’s experiences. It’s kind of crazy that the boat OEM delivered such a heavy rig with only single-axle brakes, which was part of the stress on the truck’s brakes (9,000 pounds with fuel over two axles but only one with brakes), but also led to smoke rolling off the single-axle trailer brakes on involuntary (surge) braking under engine braking during slow downhill runs in the Catskills and Adirondacks last month. Again, it did the job, but in my opinion, not safely, and we will do what we can to increase the margin. We will just have to deal with the overheating by going even slower (45 on or below uphills) and pay the price at the pump and fill-up frequency. Comes with the PowerBoost heavy towing territory. And that’s fine.

 

[spikerS]

Not giving up 2 boat slip

Thanks, but not giving up 2 boat slips on the ICW. We do pay for offsite trailer parking, but another $250/month to park the F-30 plus inconvenience of shuttling six miles each way every time we wanted to use it caused the switch to half ton, given Ford’s claims of towing parity for our needs. Again, it does it okay. I am spending another $12k to replace the trailer now - going from galvanized with brakes on one axle to aluminum with brakes on two axles and a format that will allow weight distribution, plus switching from surge brakes to electric over hydraulic brakes (now available for boat trailers, but not when I bought this trailer in ‘05) - not that this change is required, but just to ge everything inside the margins far enough for my comfort after thsi summer’s experiences. It’s kind of crazy that the boat OEM delivered such a heavy rig with only single-axle brakes, which was part of the stress on the truck’s brakes (9,000 pounds with fuel over two axles but only one with brakes), but also led to smoke rolling off the single-axle trailer brakes on involuntary (surge) braking under engine braking during slow downhill runs in the Catskills and Adirondacks last month. Again, it did the job, but in my opinion, not safely, and we will do what we can to increase the margin. We will just have to deal with the overheating by going even slower (45 on or below uphills) and pay the price at the pump and fill-up frequency. Comes with the PowerBoost heavy towing territory. And that’s fine.

OK, fair enough. Glad you cleared that up for me. In your previous posts it came across that you were super angry and that the truck was garbage. At least to me.

I don't think I have ever seen Ford or anyone else claim that the F150 can do the job of a superduty, so I would be interested to see what literature you found from Ford that claims this. As for reviewers, well, most of them out there don't know their ass from a hole in the ground and will always make stupid claims to get views, so you have to take them with a grain of salt and do your own homework.

TFL Truck is a prime example of this type of reviewer. They are only putting up clickbait YT videos that are mostly videos of pretty inept people towing who don't understand things very well. Their Ike gauntlets are pretty cool, at least in theory, but you have to take each truck's results on it's own. They are never really comparable to each other as the trucks are never very well matched up, and there is always a wide swinging margin between them.

 

[PJBecker]

Not sure where the rancor is coming from. And make no mistake I'm far from a Ford apologist (that other popular forum is full of them). The Ford marketing lit does reference the standard in the footnotes: SAE J2807, not that anyone would notice or bother to look it up. The WHOLE point of the SAE standard for towing was precisely to give some common definition that allows consumers to compare across manufacturers. Before that every Manuf just made up their own definition and conditions for spouting Max tow numbers. Does anyone outside of automotive engineers know the definition, probably not. That's not important, what is important is there is one standard that Ford, Chevy, et al uses to make their claims. Does the standard represent ALL possible conditions that you could encounter with your truck, of course not, again not the point. Do Marketing types like to take the MAX numbers and footnote in 4 point font the disclaimers, YES, they all do.

Did a couple of yahoo's taking a "1/2 ton" truck that does NOT even have the Max Tow package, and submit it to a pretty grueling test, without understanding what they were doing. YES. Even though they didn't bother to understand what they were really doing (and the kept phrasing the question: "we want to find out which is better to haul a 10k load up a pass at altitude", a truck rated 11k lb or a heavy duty truck (with diesel) rated at 18k lbs. What a stupid premise.

Anyway, did the Ford truck pass the test, even though the test was beyond it's specs? Yes it did. It didn't stop, it didn't break down, it wasn't damaged. It completed the mission.

Very well put. I worked for one of the big Detroit OEM's for awhile. I worked in a testing facility that regularly put vehicles through very high temp/high load situations. Very often a max loaded vehicle would "climb a hill" in testing and onboard safety systems would automatically derate power to protect the vehicle. Those situations were always considered a "pass" for the reasons stated above. I personally have a 21 Powerboost max tow and I have had the drive motor ovetrtemp warning twice. I tow a travel trailer that is approx 9500 lbs loaded. Both times were high (90+) ambient temps and I was probably pushing it a little hard to get where I was going. My bad, I know. On the other hand, I did just use the truck to power my camper with 2 refrigerators, a crock pot, ice maker and a tent with 3 fans for 4 days and it performed splendidly. All in all, I've had this truck since Feb and I'm calling it a massive win for Ford. Take my opinions for what they are, opinions. Just know that ANY truck. No matter the brand or size can be put into a situation that isn't optimal.

Pete

 

[Mortonsk9s]

I am a mechanical engineer and I can tell you from experience, that the engineering team can meet a spec at certain conditions, and marketing can go way out of bounds with that information and almost make false advertising very quickly. Almost like a parent talking to a child and the child's interpretation is very different than fact. Trust me I have had to save grace a few times due to marketing errors. SAE testing can be vague, just like ANSI, as long as you meet X and Y sometimes Z is left to the imagination. I spend alot of time in R&D and basically things can be presented incorrectly on a SAE test.

 

[Lippy]

I am a mechanical engineer and I can tell you from experience, that the engineering team can meet a spec at certain conditions, and marketing can go way out of bounds with that information and almost make false advertising very quickly. Almost like a parent talking to a child and the child's interpretation is very different than fact. Trust me I have had to save grace a few times due to marketing errors. SAE testing can be vague, just like ANSI, as long as you meet X and Y sometimes Z is left to the imagination. I spend alot of time in R&D and basically things can be presented incorrectly on a SAE test.

As am I. Marketing people are...marketing people.

 

[Mortonsk9s]

I'm sorry, but I believe you are confusing what a spec and a testing standard are.

No one, and no where does anyone or Ford say the maximum speed you should/can tow is 45mph.

The standard gives a set of conditions to spec for a test to be able to make a claim.

In this case part of it is for the Max Tow weight spec.

Without a test spec/standard, I guess you can assume you can go 90mph up a 25% grade, with the Maximum specified weight. Of course not.

So of course you can tow faster than 45mph.

But if you want to know how the 11,000lb tow weight for the PB 4x4 was specified you do need to know the testing conditions. Or you do like most, who don't want to bother researching, they realize that is an actual MAXIMUM under some (unknown, at least to them) conditions, and they should stay well under that for their specific use.

Most everything has a specified testing condition for the capabilities they state. The battery life for your phone, the lifetime of your lightbulb, the usable mileage for a tire, etc. In most cases that testing condition is probably not exactly the same as how you are specifically using the product.

I agree with the testing to real life difference in product useage. Even in ANSI, SAE, ASTM,.... testing and requirements can equal different results from engineering to the consumer. Best practice is to get a accurate baseline and test using the exact same conditions. Which I am not going to get into.

 

[Mortonsk9s]

As am I. Marketing people are...marketing people.

Most try to be engineers, oh boy is that a challenge. I am lucky if a can get a NPL scope done correctly from them. I looked at some literature that marketing published and I had to go back and have them change that information because of assumptions not fact, which caused customers to become unhappy quickly. Marketing can be a mess.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Most try to be engineers, oh boy is that a challenge. I am lucky if a can get a NPL scope done correctly from them. I looked at some literature that marketing published and I had to go back and have them change that information because of assumptions not fact, which caused customers to become unhappy quickly. Marketing can be a mess.

The fact is that Ford marketing bald-faced sells trucks with internally conflicted specs - things that it says they can do that they LITERALLY cannot do - and there is no way for a buyer to know when ordering what their truck can do until it is delivered. One simple example: My 2021 PowerBoost has a written 12,700 towing capacity rating. It also has a 1,140 payload rating. Both of these specs are written. But those two things are virtually impossible and incompatible with one another. No truck with that payload rating can tow a trailer that exceeds 11,140 pounds (assuming 10% tongue weight) and even then it would have to be by remote control because it would need a weightless driver. Assuming a 160-pound driver, the maximum weight trailer that my truck can tow is 9,800 pounds (1,140-160=980/.1=9,800), yet it is officially rated at 12,700 pounds. All marketing.

 

[Timsvtgen1]

The fact is that Ford marketing bald-faced sells trucks with internally conflicted specs - things that it says they can do that they LITERALLY cannot do - and there is no way for a buyer to know when ordering what their truck can do until it is delivered. One simple example: My 2021 PowerBoost has a written 12,700 towing capacity rating. It also has a 1,140 payload rating. Both of these specs are written. But those two things are virtually impossible and incompatible with one another. No truck with that payload rating can tow a trailer that exceeds 11,140 pounds (assuming 10% tongue weight) and even then it would have to be by remote control because it would need a weightless driver. Assuming a 160-pound driver, the maximum weight trailer that my truck can tow is 9,800 pounds (1,140-160=980/.1=9,800), yet it is officially rated at 12,700 pounds. All marketing.

That's LITERALLY no different than any other pickup , class 8 truck, RV or car, or station wagon, or motorcycle. They advertise GVWR, and GCWR as well as give out a tow guide that explains how to calculate that. One wouldn't and frankly shouldn't be so appalled if they actually took all this in before truck shopping. Consumer ignorance isn't Manufactures liability.

 

[Mortonsk9s]

I feel like the towing capacity can be a gimmick but for a manufacture point of few it is hard to assume how each application is going to configured. The thousands of different trailer types, axle types, trailer design, materials the trailers are made with, and configuration of load, braking systems. If loaded correctly the only thing I am worried about it the chassis brakes. I have always felt 1/2 ton brakes are not beefy enough to handle the weight on a incline. That can be solved by an aftermarket kit. People who bend the hitch have it load incorrectly, brakes that overheat can be very dangerous, but you can also modify your trailer brake system as well. I know FEA and strain gauge testing as been performed on the hitch and bumper design. You can also prevent hitch damage by adding doublers to the tubing and gussets, that will help with the over-concentration of stress and add yield strength to the material.

Longer bump stops can be added but that will add more stress to the axle, airbags can help. Most people I know use aftermarket towing add-ons to help bring the chassis up to their individual liking. In all honestly a barely 5000 pound passenger truck almost towing something 3 times its own weight is amazing in its own.

 

[Whiskey]

FWIW, my PB has on two occasions warned me of an overheating issue. Both times, the tiny Icon thermometer looking deal remained RED but the green bar below that remained in the center of the indicator. Both times, very low speeds, level ground, bumpy road. Both times pulling an empty trailer. Any body else having this issue?

 

[PungoteagueDave]

That's LITERALLY no different than any other pickup , class 8 truck, RV or car, or station wagon, or motorcycle. They advertise GVWR, and GCWR as well as give out a tow guide that explains how to calculate that. One wouldn't and frankly shouldn't be so appalled if they actually took all this in before truck shopping. Consumer ignorance isn't Manufactures liability.

So it is okay with you to advertise in BOLD and put on the truck's specification sticker that a pickup truck has a 12,700 tow rating when there is no way the truck or ANY version of that model can tow anywhere near that weight? Just because it is done does not make it right.

 

[Timsvtgen1]

So it is okay with you to advertise in BOLD and put on the truck's specification sticker that a pickup truck has a 12,700 tow rating when there is no way the truck or ANY version of that model can tow anywhere near that weight? Just because it is done does not make it right.

My answer: yes... it is an advertisement after all. Personally, I don't buy something to then max it out as I feel there should be a buffer for reliability's sake. ( Ex. I have one of those as seen on tv copper frying pans but the lady said I can scratch it with a fork and then STILL be able to peel off the burnt cheese. Who would do that? Just because she said it would do it, I want that pan to last as long as possible) Furthermore, when it comes to Ford trucks- as far as I know , they don't list the actual tow ratings on the trucks ( in bold or otherwise) while in brochures and advertisements it's met with a disclaimer that refers you to the official towing guide. Now, I'll admit the towing guide is a fairly dry read but it would take all the shock out of finding what your net towing/hauling numbers and even mention the SAE J2807 test while also sparing your family, friends and fellow forum members your outrage. If anything, I'd be disappointed in payload numbers but if you know how that works, that also wouldn't surprise you. Food for thought, while an F-150 may have a max payload of 2800 lbs, that 2800 lbs is a 4x2 reg cab xl with zero options... in real life, a Ford Maverick base has almost as much payload as a fully loaded Limited F-150. Bottom line, and I mean this respectfully, educate yourself on this matter and understand how this works and this is a non issue. UNLESS you bought a truck that was too light duty for the task at hand because the buyer didn't do their homework.

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