Direct to Consumer debates

[dorbi]

This conversation is too political. Circling back.

It is truly unfathomable how such an unfathomable amount of engineering could produce this small pickup truck, an unfathomable disappointment whose total lack of basic utility remains entirely unfathomable to anyone who actually tries to use it.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y...F9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/MPuTZQqOmYKPK/giphy.gif

Seems like a totally reasonable, well thought out sentiment that is universally agreed upon.

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[jefrank]

That seems to be pretty accurate. Legacy companies with existing franchises would have to change the agreements and maybe do other things, like spin the EVs off to a separate business entity to avoid some state laws.

Contracts can be rewritten and a franchise is a contract.

It would be nice if Ford could do one or both of those things and sell DTC.

Many Ford dealerships have an anti-EV bias according to some owners experiences, so maybe they wouldn't have a problem letting ford sell only EVs DTC?

Just an outside the box idea maybe, 'radical' as I said initially.

But the law is an evolving thing, and if it can't keep up with change, it ought to be rewritten.

We should have laws regarding business that benefit and protect consumers.

DTC auto sales are mostly beneficial to both the buyer and the seller compared with the franchise models from what I have read from economists and legal folks who write about that kind of thing.

Like many things, the dealership model started off being beneficial for the manufacturer and the customer... local service for the customer and much less risk for the manufacturer... but has evolved to be generally beneficial to no one but themselves.

 

[RickLightning]

That is the cynical view, and it is not 100% wrong or right.
Right now it is clearly being run by a cabal of corrupt families, but that too will pass.

When the general public's and businesses' interests coincide, that is usually a good thing no matter what the origin.

Often what advances business interests does so because it benefits the general public as well.
Public education, health and welfare laws, disease prevention, all benefit employers and employees.
Sometime the impetus for the improvement comes from the public sometimes from business.

And sometimes it is a struggle to get any change to the status quo, of course.

Sometimes it take a grass-roots movement to get the attention of the law makers and get some reforms, things that corporate lobbyists would not want because of short-term thinking and greed generally.

Anti-trust law, social security and medicare, unemployment insurance, wage and hour laws, child labor laws, civil rights, women's suffrage, mandatory seat belts, environmental laws, etc. are all examples where it took a lot of fighting the moneyed interests to get improvements and laws to enforce them.

Sometimes it takes a spectacular failure to get change - a stock market crash, an economic depression, a financial crisis, for example. All those things led to some improvements.

Did most people ignore the warning signs that could have headed them off?
Were errors made?
Yes.

Heading off a catastrophic global climate crisis is another one of those struggles right now.
I wish I could be more optimistic about how that one will end up.

America is an evolving democracy.
A few steps forward and a step back now and then.

I think some of your thoughts are very naive.

Our government is, has been, and always will be full of corruption. What is different today is that a lot of it is out in the open. A decade ago, the waters were tested as to where the line was. They learned the line was non-existent. Now they just do it. There are no repercussions. One can simply give oneself, and everyone else, full amnesty.

Nothing will change.

 

[GDN]

@TaxmanHog - Sadly time to put on that new Fathom cap and do away with most of this thread - it's not about the truck any more.

 

[jefrank]

@TaxmanHog - Sadly time to put on that new Fathom cap and do away with most of this thread - it's not about the truck any more.

What is there really to say about the truck? Ford isn't really telling us anything, so, yeah, the thread is going to take on a life of its own in the absence of anything real.

 

[TaxmanHog]

Hey folks, been on the Road Glide all day, patched in a new member, awesome day of riding.

I've split the bulk of posts from Fathom thread which drifted into a debate over marketing methods.

You're welcome to continue the back and forth right here on that, please keep the original thread on topic about the new universal platform truck, like or hate it for its merits over there please.

 

[dorbi]

Hey folks, been on the Road Glide ay, patching in a new member, awesome day of riding.

So, I've split the bulk of posts from Fathom thread which drifted into the debates over marketing methods.

You're welcome to continue the back and forth right here, please keep the original thread on topic about the new universal platform truck, like or hate it for its merits over there please.

Thanks for keeping the forum orderly! Sorry it got out of hand

 

[chl]

I had no idea one of my suggestions aimed at the Ford folks about the Fathom would be so controversial.
I vaguely remembered Ford considering direct marketing for the Lightning way back when.
Many of the dealerships were not thrilled about having to invest in all the things related to the Lightning back then, as I recall.

Obviously a lot of hurdles for Ford to use DTC given some states laws, franchise agreements, etc.

I think DTC of new automobiles/trucks etc. will eventually be more common.

It just makes a lot of sense for both buyers and sellers - few people love car sales folks and all the gamesmanship involved haggling over price at a dealership.

The Fathom would be a great vehicle to sell DTC.
Priced around what the DTC Slate is.

" Slate Auto has confirmed it is bypassing traditional brick-and-mortar dealerships completely, utilizing an online direct-to-consumer (DTC) sales model where buyers order online, configure options, and choose either direct home delivery (for an additional fee) or local pickup....
To navigate state-by-state franchise laws that prohibit direct manufacturer sales, Slate will likely lean on established workarounds used by other EV startups: utilizing out-of-state transactions for restricted markets, pursuing state-specific manufacturer dealer licenses where permitted, and managing home deliveries or local drop-offs rather than traditional showrooms "

Yes, it would take some legal maneuvering for the Fathom, but not impossible I think.

Will Ford dealerships be happier about the Fathom than they were about the Lightning?
Will they deal with EV customers better?

Time will tell.

 

[chl]

I think some of your thoughts are very naive.

Our government is, has been, and always will be full of corruption. What is different today is that a lot of it is out in the open. A decade ago, the waters were tested as to where the line was. They learned the line was non-existent. Now they just do it. There are no repercussions. One can simply give oneself, and everyone else, full amnesty.

Nothing will change.

Now there's a happy thought..."nothing will change." lol

I think some of your thoughts are overly pessimistic and cynical.

I also think too often you resort to personal attacks which only serve to undermine the often good points you make.

But I can see why people think that way - glass half-empty folks.

Looking back on it, in my 75 year lifetime, a lot has changed, in fits and starts, but some things have improved. Some things have probably gotten worse, too, I'll admit that. I am not naive.

Sure, greed and corruption seem to be innate human tendencies, not naive about that.
People with a weak character give in to them, among other bad behaviors and thinking.
They talk tough overcompensating for their insecurities.
People fall for their bravado mistaking it for true strength and leadership qualities.

Usually the legal system catches up to these crooks, but some do escape if they are good enough at the corrupting everything and everyone around them. That absolute power corrupts absolutely is nothing new.
They get immunity from the highest court for 'official acts' or undeserved pardons from the executive.
Shameful failures of our system to be sure.
----
But, anyway, I think the topic here to discuss is DTC, and not a philosophical analysis of collective and corrupt human behavior, nor our individual outlooks about it.

So democratization improvements (more power in the people) over time have lead to the consumer protections, anti-trust laws, an Internet market place, trade agreements between countries, etc. When they work, when they are enforced, we all benefit.

So I think the franchise model for auto sales has maybe outlived it's usefulness?

DTC is on the rise in many other areas of the economy.

Dinosaurs that couldn't adapt have become extinct...will legacy automakers adapt?

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