Lightning vs R1T - Timing and cost

[greenne]

You're right, except Ford makes you choose a dealer BEFORE placing the order. A lot of shady Bronco dealers out there refusing to put things in writing and then springing $5k ADMs on customers at delivery who've been waiting patiently for 12+ months.

If a dealer doesn't put it in writing I walk..simple as that.

There are plenty of dealers who will put it in writing...

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[greenne]

But many are so and it is the same net effect as Rivian's price increase. Demand for EV vehicles is high.

So we trade a "possible" ADM on some consumers(unknown number but less than 100%) who are too misinformed or too lazy to shop around for a "sure thing" markup on EVERYONE(100%).

Right that makes perfect sense...

 

[Oneand0]

I was dead set on a Rivian RT1 three years ago for my next vehicle, never again to buy a gasoline vehicle. Then an old buddy sent me a link to watch the Bronco debut and less than halfway through it I reserved one. Fast forward, the Bronco is awesome and now I’m waiting for my Ford Lightning because I was too slow to put my $1000 down with Rivian. I’m happy I just ordered the Lightning. If I had both in front of me to choose from, it would be a very hard call to make.

 

[EaglesPDX]

The R1T was supposed to be an upscale lifestyle truck.

Not upscale in the luxury sense, upscale in the offroad sense. The four motor drives, the high ground clearance, the 400 mile range, the camping tools. I know a lot of mountain cyclers that drive Tacomas rigged like that.

"The Tacoma is not only a stalwart of the midsize truck segment but also of the off-roading community."

The smaller size is nice when back in civilization.

 

[Yellow Buddy]

Just want people to know that for cargo, the Riven is more Maverick in size compared to the larger beds on the Ranger, Lightening or Cybertruck. Agree, some truck owners buy them for the look and use them like a sedan.

Even then, it's tough depending on the type of cargo. When I carry sheets - 4x8. The R1T is good enough because of it's gooseneck tailgate. It gives 7' of support which is enough.

But when I need to carry say my kids power wheel to the dump now I have to drop the tailgate down and strap it down. Which is a pain in the butt.

 

[LightningShow]

Not upscale in the luxury sense, upscale in the offroad sense. The four motor drives, the high ground clearance, the 400 mile range, the camping tools. I know a lot of mountain cyclers that drive Tacomas rigged like that.

"The Tacoma is not only a stalwart of the midsize truck segment but also of the off-roading community."

The smaller size is nice when back in civilization.

If it wasn't a brand new company I would have probably opted for the Rivian mainly for the smaller size. I'm pretty happy about my decision to go with Ford now. I can live with a full sized truck even though it's a PITA sometimes.

 

[Riviot]

And just like that, they are reverting pricing for preorder holders from 1 March and back.

 

[LightningShow]

That must've been a hell of a backlash! ?

 

[vandy1981]

That must've been a hell of a backlash! ?

Honestly, they probably would have been OK if they had made a stepped increase in price based on reservation date. Those that have held reservations for years were going to be the most offended and complain the loudest. I didn't reserve until January 2022 and probably would have just shrugged it off and moved on with my life.

Hopefully this will serve as a lesson for automakers who use these reservation systems. GM is far from perfect, but at least they limited the number of reservations for their "first editions" of the Hummer, Silverado and Lyriq.

 

[FordLightningMan]

And just like that, they are reverting pricing for preorder holders from 1 March and back.

Seems Rivian is in an awful spot. When they honor this price, they are now going to lose money for every vehicle they make for the next 3 or so years. Will the company remain solvent doing that? I assume they did the math and see they are sitting on enough cash to last, but good luck wooing new investors while simultaneously confirming you won't have a chance to generate positive cash flow until at least 2025. Realistically, it will be closer to 2030 until this company is profitable. The reservation holders are happy with this outcome, but they won't be if the company goes under.

Amazon has near unlimited cash, but they've started backing other EV horses. If they were to walk away, this company is in bad shape.

 

[Ruination]

And just like that, they are reverting pricing for preorder holders from 1 March and back.

Are they allowing people to cancel the cancel?

 

[LightningShow]

Honestly, they probably would have been OK if they had made a stepped increase in price based on reservation date. Those that have held reservations for years were going to be the most offended and complain the loudest. I didn't reserve until January 2022 and probably would have just shrugged it off and moved on with my life.

Yeah, now it looks like they don't know what they are doing. This was obviously going to create a HUGE backlash. They should've probably just made the increase smaller and done another one in 6 months, or something. Hitting the reservation holders with a 20% increase in one shot is an amateur move.

 

[Riviot]

Are they allowing people to cancel the cancel?

Yes. Below is the email.


Hello Everyone,

Earlier this week, we announced pricing increases that broke the trust we have worked to build with you. Since originally setting our pricing structure, and most especially in recent months, a lot has changed. The costs of the components and materials that go into building our vehicles have risen considerably. Everything from semiconductors to sheet metal to seats has become more expensive and with this we have seen average new vehicle pricing across the U.S. rise more than 30% since 2018. Given our build lead up times, we need to plan production costs not only for today, but also for the future.

As we worked to update pricing to reflect these cost increases, we wrongly decided to make these changes apply to all future deliveries, including pre-existing configured preorders. We failed to appreciate how you viewed your configuration as price locked, and we wrongly assumed the announced Dual-Motor and Standard battery pack would provide configurations that would deliver price points similar to your original configuration. While this was the logic, it was wrong and we broke your trust in Rivian.

We also didn’t manage communications well. We didn’t give you enough insight into what was driving these decisions. The most important aspect of what we are building is our relationship with all of you. As we demonstrated earlier this week, trust is hard to build and easy to break. In speaking with many of you over the last two days, I fully realize and acknowledge how upset many of you felt. I have made a lot of mistakes since starting Rivian more than 12 years ago, but this one has been the most painful. I am truly sorry and committed to rebuilding your trust.

One of the things we talk about a lot internally is that we will make mistakes – it’s part of building something complex. The key is to learn from them and address them when they are made. It is how we grow. We made a mistake in how we approached our pricing changes, and what is important now is that we fix it.

For anyone with a Rivian preorder as of the March 1 pricing announcement, your original configured price will be honored. If you canceled your preorder on or after March 1 and would like to reinstate it, we will restore your original configuration, pricing and delivery timing. Our team will be sending an email in the next few days with more details.

Regarding our updated pricing for future preorders, the introduction of our Dual-Motor configuration and Standard battery pack has been designed to enable us to maintain lower starting prices while adjusting the pricing of the Quad-Motor and larger battery packs to reflect rising costs. Building a durable business is core to the continued impact we can deliver as a company. We are focused on building a brand and products that will continue to scale to different vehicle sizes, use cases, price points and markets – this growth will only be possible with your support and continued feedback.

Thank you for the personal notes and discussions I had with so many of you. Your feedback makes us better.

RJ

 

[Sklith]

Just want people to know that for cargo, the Riven is more Maverick in size compared to the larger beds on the Ranger, Lightening or Cybertruck. Agree, some truck owners buy them for the look and use them like a sedan.

Why do you keep talking about women's reproductive cycle in a thread about electric trucks?

 

[VTbuckeye]

Yes. Below is the email.


Hello Everyone,

Earlier this week, we announced pricing increases that broke the trust we have worked to build with you. Since originally setting our pricing structure, and most especially in recent months, a lot has changed. The costs of the components and materials that go into building our vehicles have risen considerably. Everything from semiconductors to sheet metal to seats has become more expensive and with this we have seen average new vehicle pricing across the U.S. rise more than 30% since 2018. Given our build lead up times, we need to plan production costs not only for today, but also for the future.

As we worked to update pricing to reflect these cost increases, we wrongly decided to make these changes apply to all future deliveries, including pre-existing configured preorders. We failed to appreciate how you viewed your configuration as price locked, and we wrongly assumed the announced Dual-Motor and Standard battery pack would provide configurations that would deliver price points similar to your original configuration. While this was the logic, it was wrong and we broke your trust in Rivian.

We also didn’t manage communications well. We didn’t give you enough insight into what was driving these decisions. The most important aspect of what we are building is our relationship with all of you. As we demonstrated earlier this week, trust is hard to build and easy to break. In speaking with many of you over the last two days, I fully realize and acknowledge how upset many of you felt. I have made a lot of mistakes since starting Rivian more than 12 years ago, but this one has been the most painful. I am truly sorry and committed to rebuilding your trust.

One of the things we talk about a lot internally is that we will make mistakes – it’s part of building something complex. The key is to learn from them and address them when they are made. It is how we grow. We made a mistake in how we approached our pricing changes, and what is important now is that we fix it.

For anyone with a Rivian preorder as of the March 1 pricing announcement, your original configured price will be honored. If you canceled your preorder on or after March 1 and would like to reinstate it, we will restore your original configuration, pricing and delivery timing. Our team will be sending an email in the next few days with more details.

Regarding our updated pricing for future preorders, the introduction of our Dual-Motor configuration and Standard battery pack has been designed to enable us to maintain lower starting prices while adjusting the pricing of the Quad-Motor and larger battery packs to reflect rising costs. Building a durable business is core to the continued impact we can deliver as a company. We are focused on building a brand and products that will continue to scale to different vehicle sizes, use cases, price points and markets – this growth will only be possible with your support and continued feedback.

Thank you for the personal notes and discussions I had with so many of you. Your feedback makes us better.

RJ

That is what doing the right thing and falling on one's sword looks like. I hope that Rivian continues to grow and is successful and still exists in 5 years.

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