Malice or incompetence - dealership.

[chl]

I’m writing this today because I just discovered that one of the primary reasons I chose my specific trim level was based on false information.
When I purchased my 2024 Ford F-150 Lightning XLT, I was told it came equipped with Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC), Lane Centering, and an LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery. At the time of purchase, the salesperson emphasized that the LFP battery was more stable, which was a major factor in my decision to choose the XLT over the Flash trim.
I eventually learned that my XLT lacked ACC and Lane Centering—an issue many buyers seemed to face around that time. I made my peace with that, but I just found out yesterday that I didn't even get the LFP battery. Instead, it has a smaller NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) battery.
Why should I be expected to have more product knowledge than the dealership? What do you all think—were they lying or just incompetent?
As the saying goes: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

Sorry you relied on those what I assume were oral promises - once you signed a written contract that specified the features the truck has but did not mention the "ACC" and "Lane Centering," and accepted the vehicle, you probably lost any legal recourse for oral promises before purchase, depending on your state.

Except maybe for the LFP battery. I don't think the battery chemistry is listed anywhere on the Window sticker, or any other written document with the purchase, but I haven't checked them all yet. So the fact it isn't LFP was not disclosed in the sales documents or contract, but you'd have to check them carefully to be sure.

Of course it would be good to have some written evidence that it was orally promised, like an email exchange with the salesperson or dealership where they acknowledge the misstatement/promise.

You might get some compensation from the dealership because you relied on their promise.

As for whether they 'lied' about the LFP, the sales people may have honestly thought the LFPs were going into the 2024's - I believe at one time that was considered by Ford and mentioned publicly.

But I think you should be happy you did not get the LFP batteries because they require periodic cycling (discharge and charge - some say once a month) to re-calibrate the BMS and help balance the cells.

The LFP batteries have a very flat voltage curve which makes it harder for the battery management system (BMS) to keep an accurate state of charge (SOC). Tesla apparently recommends charging their LFP equipped vehicles to 100% AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK but to avoid leaving the battery at 100% for very long!

Not sure what Ford would have recommended. But for me that 100% charging would not be convenient.

No need to do that with what we have (NMC - Lithium-ion batteries with a cathode containing Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide).

What I want is Solid State batteries (SSBs) which use a solid electrolyte - higher energy density, faster charging and safer as well! They are coming down the pike inthe next year of two.

Sponsored

 

[chl]

You were mislead in multiple ways. The dealer is incompetent and IMO it’s reasonable to assume their incompetence is based on a malevolent decision not to learn. You can never trust a dealership to tell you the truth. Their job isn’t honesty and state laws protect dealers rather than consumers.

The 2024 XLT only had one battery size: Standard Range, NMC, 98 kWh useable. The 2024 XLT didn’t come with an LFP battery; the Flash did.

You should have received a window sticker upon purchase. That window sticker should list the things it has, including the battery.

You can also decode the VIN to get the proper information about the battery.
Position 8 of your VIN indicates the battery:

Code	Battery Type
S	LFP battery (98
K	Standard Range (NMC) battery
7	Extended Range (NMC) battery w single charger
M	Extended Range (NMC) battery w dual chargers

Never saw battery chemistry explicitly mentioned in any of the window stickers for Lightnings I looked at before I bought my 2023 Pro, but maybe I missed it.

Sure it is encoded in the VIN, but does that constitute 'disclosure' before some 'normal person' purchases a vehicle?

 

[chriserx]

I swore I saw a physical sheet with the info but I could be wrong.
https://www.fordservicecontent.com/..._information/NL38-10B759-FB-P702BEV-5P96S.pdf

 

[chl]

I swore I saw a physical sheet with the info but I could be wrong.
https://www.fordservicecontent.com/..._information/NL38-10B759-FB-P702BEV-5P96S.pdf

I'll have to dig out my docs and see if I ever got one, For some reason a lot of the papers I was supposed to get when I signed (like the sale doc for the IRS showing I got the $7500 up front and that the Vehicle qualified) they were going to send me in the mail, but I never got them...luckily the IRS had the info about the sale so I got the tax credit.

NOPE: I didn't get a sheet like that - don't remember seeing one either. I bought my 2023 Pro in Jan 2024..

 

[chriserx]

I'll have to dig out my docs and see if I ever got one, For some reason a lot of the papers I was supposed to get when I signed (like the sale doc for the IRS showing I got the $7500 up front and that the Vehicle qualified) they were going to send me in the mail, but I never got them...luckily the IRS had the info about the sale so I got the tax credit.

NOPE: I didn't get a sheet like that - don't remember seeing one either. I bought my 2023 Pro in Jan 2024..

Yeah, I forgot to add the fact that before I posted, I went and looked and there was no paper in my folder. I may have just seen it looking up the owners manual online while waiting for the dealer to finalize everything.

 

[Rayo1839]

I’m writing this today because I just discovered that one of the primary reasons I chose my specific trim level was based on false information.
When I purchased my 2024 Ford F-150 Lightning XLT, I was told it came equipped with Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC), Lane Centering, and an LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery. At the time of purchase, the salesperson emphasized that the LFP battery was more stable, which was a major factor in my decision to choose the XLT over the Flash trim.
I eventually learned that my XLT lacked ACC and Lane Centering—an issue many buyers seemed to face around that time. I made my peace with that, but I just found out yesterday that I didn't even get the LFP battery. Instead, it has a smaller NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) battery.
Why should I be expected to have more product knowledge than the dealership? What do you all think—were they lying or just incompetent?
As the saying goes: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

Well I was told at a dealership that a new battery would only cost 14000.00 that was so far off it isn’t even funny

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

See here is a great example of potential an honest mistake. I would expect, especially from how confident you sounded about your reply to others that you had adequately researched the subject to make yourself sound like an authority, but even you missed that Ford apparently never let a production LFP Lightning roll off the line.

I truly hate salesman, car being close to the bottom of the slime pool, but you do need to give them some grace in trying to stay up with a manufacturer that has around 15 active models that all have 3-6 trim levels and then those trim levels have levels and packages and …. What the is Platinum +?

My dealer was embracing this change and had a Model-E salesperson that was the front person for all electric. He was a nice guy but had the knowledge of a kindergartner when it truly came down to the truck. I was having to educate him on how things worked and how to log in/register for this or that. That was a failure in leadership, failure on him for not studying product knowledge, and made them look bad.

I accept the critique.
That said, it’s not my job.

It’s the dealer’s job.

I’ll give the salesperson grace. They’re just doing the job they can with the information their employer gives them.

But the dealership itself? No. Dealers in pretty much every state fight hard to be the only option to purchase a new car. They bribe politicians, they fight every law that might make it easier for consumers to be protected from shady dealers. They are out there making millions upon millions of dollars making the argument that we need them to protect us from the untrustworthy manufacturers. And they won’t even bother to make sure their employees are better informed than the customers. No. The dealers are scum and don’t deserve any grace. I can’t wait for them to be completely out of the picture.

 

[WXman]

I was always told that every Lightning has the same battery chemistry. That was passed around a lot, even before I got my truck I was aware of that just because of how often it was talked about. "Old" battery chemistry and "old" 400v charge platform on every Lightning truck.

 

[MountainAlive]

As others noted, we all have to do our deep research on these vehicles prior to purchase. Or if you can afford it, just buy the highest trim available and that way you know you got everything

 

[chriserx]

I was always told that every Lightning has the same battery chemistry. That was passed around a lot, even before I got my truck I was aware of that just because of how often it was talked about. "Old" battery chemistry and "old" 400v charge platform on every Lightning truck.

Technically I believe LFP is older, I remember reading about it in high school, and NCM, or as I remember it then, NMC was college.

 

[chl]

As others noted, we all have to do our deep research on these vehicles prior to purchase. Or if you can afford it, just buy the highest trim available and that way you know you got everything

Research yes, Ford did not make it all that easy though. Some sales people were really knowledgeable about the Lightning and very helpful, others were just going through the motions.

In my experience, the highest trims, as often as not, have the highest number of problems with the highest cost of ownership, but it depends on what you get for the extra bucks.

The pandemic supply chain shut down already had jacked the starting MSRP up too high for my cost benefit analysis (an internal process in my head).

Some things I think should have been standard - like a heated steering wheel or at least available on all trim levels, but no.

The heated steering wheel was standard on both the 2012 Nissan Leaf trims (only 2 trims to choose from) - saves range lost by running the cabin heater in winter.

My Nissan salesman back in 2011 though the 2012's were going to get the faster charger, because Nissan had talked about that, but in the end my 2012 did not have it...the main office makes decisions, the sales people try to keep up but, it happens.

Sponsored