Maybe scrapping the Lightning is a good thing

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

So 121, not 60.

As of April 2025, one report I read was at about 380. But what speed these chargers work at is a different story.

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[jwrezz]

In the 70s, scientist thought we were supposed to be in an ice age today. Nobody knows nothing for sure, but for sure people are making lots of money from the climate change theory including politicians. Also while we are told to cut back on fossil fuels, China is building tons of coal burning plants. It's all a con job.

Smoking is bad. Smoke inhalation can kill you. I think the logical conclusion is that burning stuff everywhere for heat and energy is not good for the air we breathe.

 

[Newton]

whatever the number it's short of what's needed by 10's of thousands.

I disagree, and I take long trips (on and off the interstates) in a standard range. It was fine before we had Tesla access and now it is stupidly easy. There are a lot of owners with perfectly capable road-trip EVs who are afraid to try, which in my opinion is a psychological response to carefully-crafted propaganda and a natural tendency to overestimate how many miles we actually drive in a day. (It can take over three hours to go 100 miles in my metro area which is one reason that I don't live there).

Because of the lead time for electrical infrastructure build-out we are always solving last year's problem, just like we are always fighting the last war. We are desperately trying to get fast chargers every 50 miles along every freeway when the Mercedes CLA has a 400+ mile range for under $50K. An owner with that vehicle will rarely need a fast charger if they have access to overnight charging. A car like that can go five or six hours without recharging (in the real world where traffic exists) which is well beyond the limit for a human to drive continuously without becoming a menace to other drivers.

Obviously the infrastructure needs to keep up with increasing demand and in my opinion we should more intelligently manage our incentives for fast charger distribution but am not optimistic about that happening here. There is a lot that we could do if we had the will to solve this engineering problem that is climate change/pollution but in this country the will seems to be in the opposite direction. I'm eagerly awaiting the announcement from the genius who lead the EV revolution (all by himself!) to announce that the future of transportation is diesel and coal. You know that is coming.

 

[Newton]

In the 70s, scientist thought we were supposed to be in an ice age today. Nobody knows nothing for sure, but for sure people are making lots of money from the climate change theory including politicians. Also while we are told to cut back on fossil fuels, China is building tons of coal burning plants. It's all a con job.

Meanwhile the Skagit River hit its all time record flood level last week, fortunately one city around here that believes in climate change built a flood wall. Some of the others had a bad time.

 

[Maxx]

I simply will never understand people who are reluctant to take their Lightnings on road trips.

Let me help you a bit here. I have taken both the Lightning and my wife's outback on road trips. It is not like I have no bases for comparison. Lightning is definitely more comfortable but as for why I chose outback on this trip; We decided to do a 2000 mile road trip (the day before the departure) that includes minimum of eight hotels. Planning that for Lightning for locations with dedicated chargers I could count on would severely limit my options. That means for almost all of it, I would be supercharging. In my neighborhood supercharging is 60 cents per Kilowatts and I saw a ridiculously long line that freaked me out last week.

Since most of the miles will be highway miles, at 2 mi/kWh would be 30c/mile (25 c/mile if I get Tesla membership).

With outback at 30 mile per gallon, at $2.60/gal (what I paid today), it would be 9 c/mile (1/3 of the cost.

This trip is about exploration and we could change direction at any moment because we discovered a new place to check out. I have given the speech to ICE owner myself about the waIt time and bladder but what you ignore is the freedom to empty your bladder where you want is completely gone if you are tied to DCFC locations.

It comes down to the fact that in a trip like this, I hop in the Subaru and the car has to worry about what I need instead of me worrying about what it needs. On any trip bellow 500 mile or when I have more time for planning, Lightning is clear choice.

For me this is not like politics (I am a part of one team and anything the other team says regardless of what it is, is invalid). I can see valid points on both sides.

You still may not understand my point of view but I have given it my best shot.

 

[ZeusDriver]

In the 70s, scientist thought we were supposed to be in an ice age today. Nobody knows nothing for sure, but for sure people are making lots of money from the climate change theory including politicians. Also while we are told to cut back on fossil fuels, China is building tons of coal burning plants. It's all a con job.

There was no consensus among real scientists in the 1970's that there was supposed to be an ice age in 2025. That is complete nonsense. There was a Newsweek article suggesting the possibility that we were going to have a long term cooling event, but that was not the consensus then or now among scientists who actually know the subject matter. There have always been scientific crackpots arguing for space lasers causing fires and the like: thus the value of scientific consensus.

Alexander Graham Bell correctly predicted the effect of man's putting CO2 into the atmosphere back in 1917, and the scientific consensus ever since has strengthened the view that he was correct. When I was a grade schooler in the 1950s, we were taught about the effects of CO2 on the atmosphere and the earths surface temperature. There has not been any reasoned, informed debate on the subject since then -- just propaganda by oil companies, some billionaires, and uninformed people.

 

[Newton]

I guess I just have a different experience than others. I had a Subaru outback for awhile, and 30mpg on the freeway would be really optimistic. This sort of discussion is always interesting, you find the ICE people who constantly got 25mpg on their Ecoboost (which I also owned) while towing trailers uphill and the EV people who get 6 mi/kWh in the winter. We look down and see a number on the screen while driving but few people other than data nerds like me bother to compute the actual mileage from fill-up to fill-up or charge to charge. If you use the odometer readings you will find that the onboard computers are not very accurate and oddly err on the high side. (There are lawsuits about that). EVs are a little better in the way that they present information although they are not always honest. I can tell you that if you drive really carefully you can get an honest 30 mpg from a Diesel Mercedes R which way exceeds the EPA rating and is about the only car that I have owned that had that pleasant result.

Ultimately though you are not talking about very much money even on a 2000 mile trip (like I do from time to time). If it was an issue, people wouldn't have been driving 85 mph while gas was $5.00/gallon. (Is there any way you could send a tanker of diesel from your state to me?)

We tend to stay at air BNBs and prefer ones that have a dryer outlet or RV outlet to charge at. This makes my cost $0.00 per mile. We always ask first and can usually find something that we are allowed to plug into even at a hotel. It is just part of selecting where to stay - non smoking, queen sized bed, bathtub, EV charger? Many of the nice smaller hotel type places to stay have free* EV chargers, which is ideal although not essential. Sometimes you can really score by finding a campground with a tiny house to stay in, they will probably have a 50A outlet that you can use somewhere. Sometimes I just plug into a 110 outlet, miles are miles - although I tend not to bother that much anymore unless we are staying awhile.

I have fast charged many times and so far (touch wood) have never had to wait. I have had issues with non-working chargers and have thought I might have to wait a few times, but it hasn't happened. If a charger were full (and when they don't work) I just go down the road. I don't wait until it is empty to charge, and I don't always charge to 80%.

Now that we have Tesla access the whole process is seamless, for fast charging we choose where we want to stop rather than when. There is one near an REI store a bit south of Seattle that we like, we browse for a bit (which can really make our cost per mile go up!). There is a great one at the Tillamook cheese factory (they don't care how many times you go through the cheese sample line) and another one north of us that is near a pretty decent little place with good sandwiches. One stop is a quiet Fred Meyer in Newport where my wife spends more time that it takes to charge. Sometimes we stop where we want to hike or look at something.

I have never seen a line at at Tesla station. I know it can happen in dense urban areas, but I deliberately don't charge in places like that because I don't like to sit in traffic. Getting to the charger is really the biggest hassle of having an EV at this point, and Tesla has done a good job of putting chargers where they are easy to access.

*Pro tip - many smaller hotels use a system, I think EVGo that will cost you unless you stay at the hotel. Be sure to ask! It has always been free for me.

*Pro tip 2 - My wife would legit kill me if I suggested taking a 2000 mile trip in the Outback (which we no longer own) instead of the Lightning.

 

[Maxx]

There was no consensus among real scientists in the 1970's that there was supposed to be an ice age in 2025. That is complete nonsense. There was a Newsweek article suggesting the possibility that we were going to have a long term cooling event, but that was not the consensus then or now among scientists who actually know the subject matter. There have always been scientific crackpots arguing for space lasers causing fires and the like: thus the value of scientific consensus.

Alexander Graham Bell correctly predicted the effect of man's putting CO2 into the atmosphere back in 1917, and the scientific consensus ever since has strengthened the view that he was correct. When I was a grade schooler in the 1950s, we were taught about the effects of CO2 on the atmosphere and the earths surface temperature. There has not been any reasoned, informed debate on the subject since then -- just propaganda by oil companies, some billionaires, and uninformed people.

I have not seen one climate change denier put their mouth on an exhaust pipe and enjoy all that goodness. I just can’t see anyone arguing for pollution being a good thing even if it didn’t lead to climate change.

 

[RickLightning]

Speechless.

Carlin was right.
People should stop wasting their time pissing into the wind, you end up stinking of piss...

 

[Deleted member 21405]

Speechless.

Carlin was right.
People should stop wasting their time kissing into the wind, you end up stinking of piss...

He was right on a whole lot of shit!

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

There was no consensus among real scientists in the 1970's that there was supposed to be an ice age in 2025. That is complete nonsense. There was a Newsweek article suggesting the possibility that we were going to have a long term cooling event, but that was not the consensus then or now among scientists who actually know the subject matter. There have always been scientific crackpots arguing for space lasers causing fires and the like: thus the value of scientific consensus.

Alexander Graham Bell correctly predicted the effect of man's putting CO2 into the atmosphere back in 1917, and the scientific consensus ever since has strengthened the view that he was correct. When I was a grade schooler in the 1950s, we were taught about the effects of CO2 on the atmosphere and the earths surface temperature. There has not been any reasoned, informed debate on the subject since then -- just propaganda by oil companies, some billionaires, and uninformed people.

There are also crackpots in the global warming crowd. I dont put my trust in any of those people to tell me what the climate will be in the near or far future. Nobody know that.

 

[Effonefiddy Lightning]

Meanwhile the Skagit River hit its all time record flood level last week, fortunately one city around here that believes in climate change built a flood wall. Some of the others had a bad time.

Don't get me wrong, it not that I don't believe the climate changes, the universe does what it going to do, I'm just skeptical about man made change. Also there have been devastating floods and storms long before the industrial revolution. That's all I'm going to say about that.

 

[ZeusDriver]

That's all I'm going to say about that.

Thanks for that.

 

[CavRider]

Ditching the Lightning was a Bad thing, not for shareholders or for corporate Ford, but for the public and future.

That article over looks what are the driving forces elsewhere in the world towards ditching combustion vehicles.
Just a week or so ago there was an emergency briefing in the UK about tipping points and why the climate change forecasts are wrong. There is evidence that in as little as 25 years England may have the same winters as Hudson Bay while having hotter and dryer summers.

https://www.youtube.com/@nebriefing

I have no idea if China believes in climate change, but the government has decided since they have limited natural energy resources and, they want to develop as much electric energy as possible. The people played no role in this decision.

In the USA we believe we have independent power to decide: where we go for news, whether to believe in science, who are experts as well as who will be our public servants.

One chart from this hearing:

By the way I think there are many that like the current EV9 as a good people mover.

We sure like our EV9 but for a couple of things:
1 - placement of some of the controls seems like an afterthought and is neither convenient nor intuitive
2 - like most other Asian makes I have tried they just don’t seem to believe that I want a really hot seat and I want it NOW! Gotta give the Germans huge props for how they handle this. This Lightning isn’t too bad either.

But that EV9 is smoooooooooooth and shhhhh, quiet.

 

[chriserx]

Let me help you a bit here. I have taken both the Lightning and my wife's outback on road trips. It is not like I have no bases for comparison. Lightning is definitely more comfortable but as for why I chose outback on this trip; We decided to do a 2000 road trip that includes eight stops a day prior to departure. Planning that includes locations with dedicated chargers I could count on to be available would severely limit my options. That means for almost all of it, I would be supercharging. In my neighborhood supercharging is 60 cents per Kilowatts and I saw a ridiculously long line that freaked me out last week.

Since most of the miles will be highway miles, at 2 mi/kWh would be 30c/mile (25 c/mile if I get Tesla membership).

With outback at 30 mile per gallon, at $2.60/gal (what I paid today), it would be 9 c/mile (1/3 of the cost.

This trip is about exploration and we could change direction at any moment because we discovered a new place to check out. I have given the speech to ICE owner myself about the weight time and bladder but what you ignore is the freedom to where you empty your bladder is completely gone if you are tied to DCFC locations.

It comes down to the fact that in a trip like this, I hop in the Subaru and the car has to worry about what I need instead of me worrying about what it needs. On any trip bellow 500 mile or when I have more time for planning, Lightning is clear choice.

For me this is not like politics (I am a part of one team and anything the other team says regardless of what it is, is invalid). I can see valid points on both sides.

You still may not understand my point of view but I have given it my best shot.

Couldn't agree more, but I'd like to add a lil bit.

The general consensus in the 70's wasn't that we were supposed to be going into a cooling trend by now, not necessarily an ice age. The global average temperature has since risen instead of falling. Correlation is not necessarily causation, but with enough correlation you should step back and say, you know, maybe we need to look into this.

My vehicle before this was a Fiesta ST, averaged 30 mpg as well, but I only put premium for the zoom zoom. DCFC is also cheaper in my region so at the time I traded her in the lightning was ever so cheaper per mile, but gas has dropped since then. If it weren't for the occasional overheating (common in the 1.6), perpetual AC blend door clicking issue and the great deal the dealership gave me towards the truck I definitely would've kept her.

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