Preparing for road trip

[RickLightning]

I think A2Z shouldn't be selling both, or should rename them, but I don't run the company.

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[bc1]

I looked at the Stellar adapter and the picture didn't clearly show the ends on Amazon. Guess I'll drive by and check a few local motels and take a pic of the freebie chargers and compare the ends with what I have just so I understand the difference. Seems like the tesla destination charger level 1 and 2 isn't much different in size from the tesla nacs supercharger one.

 

[PJnc284]

Not sure what the question is here. NACS is NACS. The charger end will look the same as your typhoon. The truck end will have a j1772 plug instead of the full CCS.

 

[B177y]

I was confused on the adapters until it was explained to me on the Mach-e forum.

Tesla accomplishes AC charging and DC charging through the same pins, so NACS accomplishes everything with just 5 pins.

Tesla/NACS:
-The two large pins carry AC or DC
-2 smaller pins are communication pins
-final small pin is ground

J1772 is the top round portion of the non-NACS vehicle's plug that has 5 pins, the same as the NACS but the 2 larger pins carry AC current only. The other 3 pins are communication and ground.

The bottom 2 large pins behind the flap are the CCS part, they carry the DC current.

This is why two separate adapters are needed for non-NACS (aka CCS combo) vehicles like ours. The adapter for DCFC only uses the large CCS DC pins with the communication and ground of the J1772 portion. The "Stellar" and all of the other AC NACS adapters only use the J1772 portion of the plug to carry the AC current in the two larger pins on top, as well as the communication and ground pins.

It's impossible to have only one adapter to do everything from NACS to J1772/CCS.

 

[bc1]

I was confused on the adapters until it was explained to me on the Mach-e forum.

Tesla accomplishes AC charging and DC charging through the same pins, so NACS accomplishes everything with just 5 pins.

Tesla/NACS:
-The two large pins carry AC or DC
-2 smaller pins are communication pins
-final small pin is ground

J1772 is the top round portion of the non-NACS vehicle's plug that has 5 pins, the same as the NACS but the 2 larger pins carry AC current only. The other 3 pins are communication and ground.

The bottom 2 large pins behind the flap are the CCS part, they carry the DC current.

This is why two separate adapters are needed for non-NACS (aka CCS combo) vehicles like ours. The adapter for DCFC only uses the large CCS DC pins with the communication and ground of the J1772 portion. The "Stellar" and all of the other AC NACS adapters only use the J1772 portion of the plug to carry the AC current in the two larger pins on top, as well as the communication and ground pins.

It's impossible to have only one adapter to do everything from NACS to J1772/CCS.

OK. So its in the adapter itself that makes the changes going to the two ports on the truck. I just remember the motel handle grip looked and was the same size just like the tesla supercharger handle grip but nothing happened. That's why I wanted to go look at one to see what the pins inside it were because I remember them having the same size handle, etc. So when I looked at the adapters online it looked like I would be buying the same thing almost because the Stellar didn't show the pins inside.

So the Tesla charger end (NACS) is the same with the same pins whether it is level 1/level 2 charger or a supercharger. That is what confused me as I believed they were going to be different with different pins.

I've been to one of those charging stations where the large plug used the top plug in as well as the ports covered by the flap. I assume that was a CCS charger which must use DC charging.

At home I have a Chargepoint charger hooked up to A/C and its J1772 plug just uses the top part of the plug on the truck and not the flapped port.


So the motels and other places with free chargers using the NACS end are level 1/level 2 but they are A/C chargers just using the top port of the truck which need the Stellar adapter (not the Stellar Pro).

So the Tesla superchargers with the NACS end are DC chargers and charge through the bottom flapped port on the truck but also use the top port of the truck for communication and ground purposes which need the Typhoon Pro adapter.

So am I unconfused? Will see. J1772 and NACS are easy. I assume CCS combo is the J1772/CCS with the J1772 being the top port on the truck and the CCS being the flapped port on the truck.

Not sure about DCFC.

 

[RickLightning]

So the motels and other places with free chargers using the NACS end are level 1/level 2 but they are A/C chargers just using the top port of the truck which need the Stellar adapter (not the Stellar Pro).

So the Tesla superchargers with the NACS end are DC chargers and charge through the bottom flapped port on the truck but also use the top port of the truck for communication and ground purposes which need the Typhoon Pro adapter.

So am I unconfused? Will see. J1772 and NACS are easy. I assume CCS combo is the J1772/CCS with the J1772 being the top port on the truck and the CCS being the flapped port on the truck.

Not sure about DCFC.

Yes, but...

There are hotels / motels that have Tesla SuperChargers in them. You can tell the difference because a Tesla Destination charger is the size of a shoebox (roughly), and a Tesla SuperCharger is the size of a refrigerator...

Not all Tesla SuperChargers are available for use. The Ford app or the Tesla app (once you enter your vehicle and that you have an adapter), will only show you compatible chargers.

You have everything right, but your last sentence is confusing - "Not sure about DCFC". DCFC means Direct Current Fast Charging. That's either a Tesla Supercharger or a CCS fast charger. So, you are sure...

 

[B177y]

OK. So its in the adapter itself that makes the changes going to the two ports on the truck. I just remember the motel handle grip looked and was the same size just like the tesla supercharger handle grip but nothing happened. That's why I wanted to go look at one to see what the pins inside it were because I remember them having the same size handle, etc. So when I looked at the adapters online it looked like I would be buying the same thing almost because the Stellar didn't show the pins inside.

So the Tesla charger end (NACS) is the same with the same pins whether it is level 1/level 2 charger or a supercharger. That is what confused me as I believed they were going to be different with different pins.

I've been to one of those charging stations where the large plug used the top plug in as well as the ports covered by the flap. I assume that was a CCS charger which must use DC charging.

At home I have a Chargepoint charger hooked up to A/C and its J1772 plug just uses the top part of the plug on the truck and not the flapped port.


So the motels and other places with free chargers using the NACS end are level 1/level 2 but they are A/C chargers just using the top port of the truck which need the Stellar adapter (not the Stellar Pro).

So the Tesla superchargers with the NACS end are DC chargers and charge through the bottom flapped port on the truck but also use the top port of the truck for communication and ground purposes which need the Typhoon Pro adapter.

So am I unconfused? Will see. J1772 and NACS are easy. I assume CCS combo is the J1772/CCS with the J1772 being the top port on the truck and the CCS being the flapped port on the truck.

Not sure about DCFC.

Yup, sounds like you're almost there.....

Forget the names for a second. The large pins under the flap on your truck are the DCFC pins. To use a NACS supercharger, the adapter sends DC current to those two large pins. There are no AC pins on the Supercharger adapter (the AC pins are the two pins on the top of the circle on your charge port).

"Destination chargers" and Tesla home charger handles look the same as the superchargers handle, but only send AC (the same type of electricity at your house). These adapters, like the"Stellar" adapter, don't have the large DC pins because there is no DC current.

To complicate matters, the Ford Charge Station Pro that is available (the 80 amp capable AC home charger) uses a connection that does plug in to the large DC pins under the flap, even though you are only using the top AC charge pins. I believe the DC pins are part of the home power backup system that is garbage and doesn't work, but someone with that charger needs to expand on that.

Clear as mud?

Summary...
If you plan on traveling or road tripping and want to take advantage of the Tesla fast charging network on a car that does not have a Tesla (aka NACS - North America Charging Standard) charging port, you need a Supercharger adapter (DCFC or Direct Current Fast Charger).

If you also want to use the Tesla home charger at your friend's house or a Tesla slow charger (aka "Destination Charger) at a hotel or business, you need an adapter like the "Stellar" that only connects to the AC - Alternating Current - potion of your car's charge port.

EDIT: Posted at the same time as @RickLightning , these posts should get you squared away.

 

[bc1]

Looks like it took a few posts but its coming clear. I forgot about that Ford mobile power cord that came with an adapter that I used for a while to plug into a regular 120 volt outlet and also a 240 volt outlet which I believe is what you just called the Ford charge station pro. I'll look in the frunk later and edit my post # 56 above. Not sure if there is a printout somewhere that Identifies each port, each pin in the port, and all the other charging info.

On the other hand, maybe I'm part of a dying breed as a new lightning owner and a future reference doesn't matter.

 

[B177y]

Looks like it took a few posts but its coming clear. I forgot about that Ford mobile power cord that came with an adapter that I used for a while to plug into a regular 120 volt outlet and also a 240 volt outlet which I believe is what you just called the Ford charge station pro. I'll look in the frunk later and edit my post # 56 above. Not sure if there is a printout somewhere that Identifies each port, each pin in the port, and all the other charging info.

On the other hand, maybe I'm part of a dying breed as a new lightning owner and a future reference doesn't matter.

The Wikipedia for NACS and J1772 may help too. It shows what each pin does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Charging_Standard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

 

[RickLightning]

Looks like it took a few posts but its coming clear. I forgot about that Ford mobile power cord that came with an adapter that I used for a while to plug into a regular 120 volt outlet and also a 240 volt outlet which I believe is what you just called the Ford charge station pro. I'll look in the frunk later and edit my post # 56 above. Not sure if there is a printout somewhere that Identifies each port, each pin in the port, and all the other charging info.

On the other hand, maybe I'm part of a dying breed as a new lightning owner and a future reference doesn't matter.

No.

The Ford mobile power cord is called the Ford Mobile Charger.
The Ford Connected Charge station is a 48amp hardwired charger.
The Ford Charge Station Pro is an 80amp hardwired charger.

Why the need to understand what each pin does? I have had EVs for 4.5 years and I haven't a clue, nor the need to know. You need to know that J1772 is AC charging, CCS is DC charging, and that to use a Tesla charging cord you need one adapter for level 2 (240v) charging and a different adapter for a Tesla SuperCharger. That's all you need to know. You may WANT to know more, but there's no reason to.

 

[bc1]

No.

The Ford mobile power cord is called the Ford Mobile Charger.
The Ford Connected Charge station is a 48amp hardwired charger.
The Ford Charge Station Pro is an 80amp hardwired charger.

Why the need to understand what each pin does? I have had EVs for 4.5 years and I haven't a clue, nor the need to know. You need to know that J1772 is AC charging, CCS is DC charging, and that to use a Tesla charging cord you need one adapter for level 2 (240v) charging and a different adapter for a Tesla SuperCharger. That's all you need to know. You may WANT to know more, but there's no reason to.

Sorry. One of my anal, technical, analytical, qualities about myself and ultimate DIYer type of person that I like to know how things work and perhaps can be reverse engineered. Just an inquiring and inquisitive mind I guess. When I write something down it becomes more clear. Please forgive me in my old age.

 

[PJnc284]

Per the all knowing, never-wrong chatgpt...

J1772 (AC charging – North America)

Pins & what they do

J1772 has 5 pins total and is AC-only.

Pin	Name	What it does
L1	Line 1	AC power
L2 / N	Line 2 or Neutral	AC power return
PE	Protective Earth	Ground / safety
CP	Control Pilot	Digital + PWM signaling (charge rate, state)
PP	Proximity Pilot	Detects plug presence & latch state

Key points

• No DC capability
• Control Pilot uses a 1 kHz PWM signal to tell the car how much current it can draw
• Very robust safety interlocks (ground check, latch detection)
• Used for Level 1 & Level 2 charging

------------------------------------------------
CCS (Combined Charging System – Combo 1 in North America)

Pins & what they do

CCS is basically J1772 + two big DC pins.

Upper section (same as J1772)

Pin	Name	Function
L1	AC Line 1	AC charging
L2 / N	AC Line 2 / Neutral	AC charging
PE	Ground	Safety ground
CP	Control Pilot	Communication
PP	Proximity Pilot	Latch detection

Lower section (DC fast charging)

Pin	Name	Function
DC+	DC Positive	High-power DC
DC−	DC Negative	High-power DC

Key points

• AC and DC in one port
• Uses PLC (Power Line Communication) over CP for DC fast charging
• AC pins are inactive during DC charging
• Bulky connector, but electrically very flexible

----------------------------------------

NACS (Tesla / North American Charging Standard)

Pins & what they do

NACS does everything with just 5 pins, which is the magic trick.

Pin	Name	Function
DC+/L1	Power	AC Line 1 or DC+
DC−/L2	Power	AC Line 2 or DC−
PE	Ground	Protective earth
CP	Control Pilot	Communication & signaling
PP	Proximity Pilot	Latch & cable detection

Key points

• Same two pins carry AC and DC
• Smaller, lighter connector than CCS
• DC fast charging still uses PLC, similar to CCS
• Power pins are software-defined as AC or DC
• Connector rated for very high current despite size

 

[B177y]

Per the all knowing, never-wrong chatgpt...

J1772 (AC charging – North America)

Pins & what they do

J1772 has 5 pins total and is AC-only.

Pin	Name	What it does
L1	Line 1	AC power
L2 / N	Line 2 or Neutral	AC power return
PE	Protective Earth	Ground / safety
CP	Control Pilot	Digital + PWM signaling (charge rate, state)
PP	Proximity Pilot	Detects plug presence & latch state

Key points

• No DC capability
• Control Pilot uses a 1 kHz PWM signal to tell the car how much current it can draw
• Very robust safety interlocks (ground check, latch detection)
• Used for Level 1 & Level 2 charging

------------------------------------------------
CCS (Combined Charging System – Combo 1 in North America)

Pins & what they do

CCS is basically J1772 + two big DC pins.

Upper section (same as J1772)

Pin	Name	Function
L1	AC Line 1	AC charging
L2 / N	AC Line 2 / Neutral	AC charging
PE	Ground	Safety ground
CP	Control Pilot	Communication
PP	Proximity Pilot	Latch detection

Lower section (DC fast charging)

Pin	Name	Function
DC+	DC Positive	High-power DC
DC−	DC Negative	High-power DC

Key points

• AC and DC in one port
• Uses PLC (Power Line Communication) over CP for DC fast charging
• AC pins are inactive during DC charging
• Bulky connector, but electrically very flexible

----------------------------------------

NACS (Tesla / North American Charging Standard)

Pins & what they do

NACS does everything with just 5 pins, which is the magic trick.

Pin	Name	Function
DC+/L1	Power	AC Line 1 or DC+
DC−/L2	Power	AC Line 2 or DC−
PE	Ground	Protective earth
CP	Control Pilot	Communication & signaling
PP	Proximity Pilot	Latch & cable detection

Key points

• Same two pins carry AC and DC
• Smaller, lighter connector than CCS
• DC fast charging still uses PLC, similar to CCS
• Power pins are software-defined as AC or DC
• Connector rated for very high current despite size

Your middle pinout pic shows AC and DC in the J1772 pins. I believe that is incorrect or an AI hallucination.

 

[PJnc284]

You take that back. AI is never wrong or hallucinates!

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The ai hallucination is misleading.


Here is the J1772 connector pinout (from wikipedia, confirmed via the standards documentation):

The CCS1 connector pinout (from wikipedia, confirmed via the standards documentation):
Note that the top part of CCS1 is identical to the J1772 connector. The bottom part of the CCS1 is for DC power input/output. CCS1 and J1772 share communications pins.

J3400 (NACS) pinout (from wikipedia, confirmed via the standards document):
Note that DC shares pins with AC. CCS1 and J3400 share communications protocols.

The NACS DC pins are reversed in position relative to the CCS1 DC pins so every NACS-CCS1 adapter has busbars that cross inside the adapter.

Automated switching between NACS to either CCS1 AC or CCS1 DC is practically impossible to have in an all-in-one adapter. I don’t think it’s technically impossible, but it would require separately-powered relays as well as a communications board built into the adapter. The total cost would probably be 5x or more than two separate adapters, it would have a limited lifetime because of the relays, and if the relays ever failed while charging, damage could occur to both the EVSE/Charger and the vehicle.

You can distinguish between the DCFC NACS—CCS1 and L1/L2 AC NACS—J1772 adapters by looking at the vehicle-facing plug of the adapter. The DCFC CCS1 adapter will have both the top rounded plug with 5 pins as well as the bottom DC pins. The AC J1772 adapter will only have the top rounded plug with five pins.

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