Reliance Whole Home Interlock Question

[richguy82]

I had a Reliance 50 amp manual interconnect installed on my main panel a little while ago. I was wondering if I were to purchase a 50 amp generator cable and connect it to the propower on my truck (of course with a 30 amp adaptor and shutting off all of the circuits above 30 amps) would this cause a ground fault issue with the truck inverter?

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[FloridaMan655321]

So you have something on your main panel to physically switch from your electric company input to an external input, such as a generator, correct?
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...or-lockout-kit-to-feed-the-whole-panel.20465/

That link might help you, especially towards the end. I'm guessing it's set up incorrectly for the Lightning with the neutral and ground. Mine is also set up 'incorrectly', but it works and I'm not concerned with the 'risks'.

 

[richguy82]

So you have something on your main panel to physically switch from your electric company input to an external input, such as a generator, correct?
https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...or-lockout-kit-to-feed-the-whole-panel.20465/

That link might help you, especially towards the end. I'm guessing it's set up incorrectly for the Lightning with the neutral and ground. Mine is also set up 'incorrectly', but it works and I'm not concerned with the 'risks'.

It’s a 50 amp inlet box with a manual interlock on the main breaker. Thanks for that link. I suspect it’s going to be an issue with the ground (I have the same issue with my sub panel). I wanted to see if anyone had experience with this connection method before I went and bought the cable from Amazon. I guess the better solution would be to make my own cable so I can attach/detach the ground at will.

 

[Henry Ford]

A properly wired power inlet box and panel interlock switch is not compatible with Pro Power Onboard.

Ford's system provides ground fault protection and is very sensitive. If ground touches neutral at any point in the circuit the truck will immediately stop delivering power. This is a problem because a properly wired house has all neutrals ties to ground in the main panel.

Lifting the ground on a PIB or extension cord removes GFI protection and introduces threats to future users of those devices who may not be aware of their compromised condition. There may be other threats of which I'm not aware.

A neutral switching sub-panel allows you to retain GFI protection from the truck and doesn't pose a threat to future users. This solution isn't code compliant because there's no connection between the truck and earth.

In my opinion, a neutral switching sub-panel is the best solution. Either way it is wise to understand the threats of whatever system you use.

 

[Lake Placid Lightning]

A few years prior to owning my Lightning, I installed a Reliance Protran model# 20216A transfer switch to use with my gas powered portable generator. (photos included)

I'd like to be able to supply power from either the generator or Lightning during grid outages. For example, if I'm out of town with my Lightning during a power outage, I'd like my wife to be able to use the gas generator to supply temporary power through the transfer switch. If I am home with my Lightning during a power outage, I'd like to be able to use my Lightning's Pro Power to supply temporary power through the transfer switch.

Would a neutral switching transfer switch work as I desire? If so, which one?

 

[richguy82]

A properly wired power inlet box and panel interlock switch is not compatible with Pro Power Onboard.

Ford's system provides ground fault protection and is very sensitive. If ground touches neutral at any point in the circuit the truck will immediately stop delivering power. This is a problem because a properly wired house has all neutrals ties to ground in the main panel.

Lifting the ground on a PIB or extension cord removes GFI protection and introduces threats to future users of those devices who may not be aware of their compromised condition. There may be other threats of which I'm not aware.

A neutral switching sub-panel allows you to retain GFI protection from the truck and doesn't pose a threat to future users. This solution isn't code compliant because there's no connection between the truck and earth.

In my opinion, a neutral switching sub-panel is the best solution. Either way it is wise to understand the threats of whatever system you use.

The situation I am looking at is I would be plugging in a cable from my truck to either my sub panel in my garage (which supposedly is set up correctly but trips the Propower anyway) or this whole home interconnect that I had installed. I’ve already tested the sub panel connection and had to remove the connection to the ground pin in the cable to make it work. My truck is parked in my driveway with a significant length of cable as my main panel is on the opposite side of my house (100 ft and I am aware of voltage drops) and my secondary and sub panels are in my garage maybe 30 feet away. My electrician didn’t seem to have any issue with disconnecting the ground on the generator cable when connecting to either panel. I understand the risks are non zero, but if I understand correctly, I would have to my using something with metal that’s plugged in to a circuit on the house and also touching my truck frame at the same time. Please correct me if I am wrong, but this would seem near impossible to accomplish. Also, I wouldn’t be running power tools during a power outage anyway (an outage is the only time I would ever plug my truck into the house).

 

[Webbo85]

The situation I am looking at is I would be plugging in a cable from my truck to either my sub panel in my garage (which supposedly is set up correctly but trips the Propower anyway) or this whole home interconnect that I had installed. I’ve already tested the sub panel connection and had to remove the connection to the ground pin in the cable to make it work. My truck is parked in my driveway with a significant length of cable as my main panel is on the opposite side of my house (100 ft and I am aware of voltage drops) and my secondary and sub panels are in my garage maybe 30 feet away. My electrician didn’t seem to have any issue with disconnecting the ground on the generator cable when connecting to either panel. I understand the risks are non zero, but if I understand correctly, I would have to my using something with metal that’s plugged in to a circuit on the house and also touching my truck frame at the same time. Please correct me if I am wrong, but this would seem near impossible to accomplish. Also, I wouldn’t be running power tools during a power outage anyway (an outage is the only time I would ever plug my truck into the house).

So that's my understanding too. Still a risk but very low. I did something similar, I have a transfer switch that was installed by an electrician 5+ years ago for my gas generator. The Pro Power trips out when connected. After reading enough posts and talking to electrical engineers at my work, I made a 6 foot generator cable (labeled as 'No Ground') with the ground not connected. I hook that to the truck, other end I connect that to my 20 foot generator cable that connects to the house. Works like a champ. This way, didn't mess with the house, and if I want to run the gas generator I don't use the 6ft cable. It's an option...

 

[richguy82]

So that's my understanding too. Still a risk but very low. I did something similar, I have a transfer switch that was installed by an electrician 5+ years ago for my gas generator. The Pro Power trips out when connected. After reading enough posts and talking to electrical engineers at my work, I made a 6 foot generator cable (labeled as 'No Ground') with the ground not connected. I hook that to the truck, other end I connect that to my 20 foot generator cable that connects to the house. Works like a champ. This way, didn't mess with the house, and if I want to run the gas generator I don't use the 6ft cable. It's an option...

Yes, this was exactly my thinking. I would have separate labeled cables for each scenario whether running ProPower or portable generator.
My other thought was just buying a 50 amp capable dual fuel inverter generator and running the whole house in an emergency, but I’m tired of spending money on this stuff! Besides, the truck is right there!

 

[Lake Placid Lightning]

I did something similar, I have a transfer switch that was installed by an electrician 5+ years ago for my gas generator. The Pro Power trips out when connected. After reading enough posts and talking to electrical engineers at my work, I made a 6 foot generator cable (labeled as 'No Ground') with the ground not connected. I hook that to the truck, other end I connect that to my 20 foot generator cable that connects to the house. Works like a champ. This way, didn't mess with the house, and if I want to run the gas generator I don't use the 6ft cable. It's an option...

I think making a short generator cable with the ground not connected is the best (and most convenient) solution for my situation. I understand the risks associated with this solution.

I'll keep the short cable without the ground in my Frunk so it can't be used when using the gas generator to power the house.

 

[Joe Dablock]

Well, I had my house set up for a standard generator with main panel bypass. Then i connected the 220v power plug in bed of Lightning to house and it tripped the Truck GFI (as expected). I then removed the ground wire at the house receptacle and the system works fine. Some day after I’m pushing daisies, someone will notice that the ground wire is disconnected and wonder why.

 

[Webbo85]

Well, I had my house set up for a standard generator with main panel bypass. Then i connected the 220v power plug in bed of Lightning to house and it tripped the Truck GFI (as expected). I then removed the ground wire at the house receptacle and the system works fine. Some day after I’m pushing daisies, someone will notice that the ground wire is disconnected and wonder why.

Which is exactly why I made the short jumper cable. I want everything on the house to code, because I know in three years I'm not going to remember disconnecting the ground.

 

[chl]

It’s a 50 amp inlet box with a manual interlock on the main breaker. Thanks for that link. I suspect it’s going to be an issue with the ground (I have the same issue with my sub panel). I wanted to see if anyone had experience with this connection method before I went and bought the cable from Amazon. I guess the better solution would be to make my own cable so I can attach/detach the ground at will.

In sub-panels the neutral should not be bonded - only bonded in one spot ie the main service panel.

Most panel install instructions will tell you how to neutral bond or neutral unbond a panel (sub-panel), example shown above.

If you don't unbond, in the case of a shed or out-building under certain circumstances a dangerous current could be present on the equipment metal parts and anything attached to them. See the video at:

Using the Lightning as a home standby generator/source should be through a transfer switch that switches the neutrals as well as the hots, and the Lightning should be grounded (the neutral is bonded to the body of the truck so the truck body should be grounded for safety). If you don't use a transfer switch, you will have ground faults detected due to the ground loop created.

If you disconnect the ground wire between the truck and the house panel, in the event of a ground fault, the body of the truck could have a potential of 120V under some circumstances because the ground fault will not be detected by the truck GFCI circuit.

It is never a good idea to remove the equipment ground - it is there for your safety. The ground should be continuous throughout your system. The neutral should be bonded and grounded only at one place in your system.

The neutral is grounded at the utility pole that feeds your house and may be bonded to the case of the transformer up the pole, which is the only exception the code allows.

That is the same requirement as for any other bonded generator/source for the same reasons.

From the Lightning manual page 183:
---
Grounding Type Neutral Bonded
The neutral of the inverter generator is bonded to system ground.
Connecting loads that also have neutral bonded to ground causes the ground fault detection
to trip.
Note: If additional grounding measures are required, consult with a qualified electrician.
---
Also, see the video and note the bonded generator powering a house part and how to do it in compliance with code, at:



The codes have been developed and written for protection from personal injury and/or property damage, so my advice is to follow them.

 

[GDN]

A few years prior to owning my Lightning, I installed a Reliance Protran model# 20216A transfer switch to use with my gas powered portable generator. (photos included)

I'd like to be able to supply power from either the generator or Lightning during grid outages. For example, if I'm out of town with my Lightning during a power outage, I'd like my wife to be able to use the gas generator to supply temporary power through the transfer switch. If I am home with my Lightning during a power outage, I'd like to be able to use my Lightning's Pro Power to supply temporary power through the transfer switch.

Would a neutral switching transfer switch work as I desire? If so, which one?

For the most part there is no reasonable neutral switching transfer switch. If there were there would be one simple thread on this subject. Unfortunately we have a few hundred. Those that are out there are very expensive and require a lot more wiring to get wired in. That is why you see the set ups you do - either the Generac transfer switch and move critical circuits out of the main panel or the panel interlock and modified dog bone adapter from the truck.

 

[chl]

I have a 30A Connecticut Electric transfer switch with 10 circuits used with my unbonded gas generator.

Since outages here rarely last more than a day, having 10 circuits worked for us for the basics.

When I got the Lightning I decided I would get a neutral switching transfer switch and the Generac 6853 fit the bill. It comes as a 8 circuit breaker switch but can be expanded to 10 circuits.

Yes there is a bit more wiring involved because the hots and the neutrals have to be connected to the Generac, but it is not that bad.

 

[Henry Ford]

For the most part there is no reasonable neutral switching transfer switch.

This is just untrue. There has been a lot written about the Generac 6853 because it works. It can't switch your whole home but the truck can't power your whole home so it doesn't really matter.

I'm sympathetic to people who want a cheaper solution but then I read things like this...

I then removed the ground wire at the house receptacle and the system works fine. Some day after I’m pushing daisies, someone will notice that the ground wire is disconnected and wonder why.

...and realize why the transfer switch is such a good idea.

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