Something about this really stinks...

[Shmoe]

I'll be the first to accept being proven wrong, but as it stands this whole operation and how they've approached it has struck me as very suspicious. Right down to the way they respond to the tech spec criticisms with "You just wanna see us fail, bro." instead of actual technical reputations.

This tech would be a gamechanger if real, but as it stands I don't see that happening.

Everyone is rightfully skeptical about these guys.

It definitely smells like shit.

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[Shmoe]

What does "that" refer to? The fact that they are publishing test results?

You seem like a very trusting individual.. I would assume the people that are being skeptical have gotten ripped off a few times in their lives. Rightfully placed skepticism is valid.

 

[Zaptor]

Not exactly confidence-inspiring, unless you mean confidence artist... "Finnish native Marko Lehtimäki previously had a career as a Christian rapper, before building a smartphone app that solved some problem and reportedly made him a millionaire. " Sauce

lol

-Zap

 

[ZeusDriver]

You seem like a very trusting individual.. I would assume the people that are being skeptical have gotten ripped off a few times in their lives. Rightfully placed skepticism is valid.

You are probably wrong about the "trusting" part. I've participated in putting a couple frauds out of business; I didn't believe in Santa Claus at any age beyond 3, and don't believe the religious myths that people use to comfort themselves and to feel superior to the "others" who have equally invalid ideas about creation, life after death, etc.

On the other hand, I have placed a large amount of trust in the people going the other direction on every two lane road. Out of thousands of such people, most completely unknown to me, only two have swerved directly and aggressively into my path.

In this thread, the "people that are being skeptical" are offering nothing to support their skepticism. They are saying that something is fishy, but they provide no evidence at all. What's fishy?

Your post does not begin to answer my question that you quoted, which I asked for the sake of clarity. I was asking JRDM2 what he meant by "that" in his sentence: "That's a bad look for them to go that route and it makes me even more suspicious."

There are actually 2 "that"s . The first refers to some undefined "bad look." What is that "bad look"? Having produced a video saying the testing results are available? The second is "that route." What route? Promoting a business? Getting testing done? Producing a motorcycle? Making motors? Having a CEO speak?

The road testing of the Verge motorcycle directly supports both the torque and horsepower claims for their motor. Those who have ridden the bike have generally positive reviews. How is that a bad route? Will it continue to perform well with the new batteries? The testing to be revealed in a couple days will suggest either that it will or that it might not. Who knows. but that is why I asked the question: what do the "thats" mean?

Without knowing what the "thats" mean, then the statement " That's a bad look for them to go that route and it makes me even more suspicious." is just noise, conveying no meaning.

If JRDM2 knows something that makes him suspicious, I'd like to know what that is. Perhaps he has a valid point, but i have no idea what that point might be. I am not a practicing chemical engineer, but I was a Chem E major, so if JDRM has some chemistry issues, perhaps we could talk.

If you have some issues to address that make this smell shitty to you, then explain those issues. Otherwise, you come off, to me, as a useless noise maker, saying "Ugh, New Battery?! Bad. Shit. No like. " What makes you think that skepticism is "rightfully placed"? How do you measure that "rightness?"

 

[Shmoe]

If you have some issues to address that make this smell shitty to you, then explain those issues. Otherwise, you come off, to me, as a useless noise maker, saying "Ugh, New Battery?! Bad. Shit. No like. " What makes you think that skepticism is "rightfully placed"? How do you measure that "rightness?"

The intentional shadiness of staying dark, only revealing partial information. Accusing everyone else of being the problem because "we're the real deal".

I've never relied on "Just Trust Us" for anything, and I'm not about to start now.

If they won't lay their cards down, it isn't anyone else's fault but theirs that they're on the receiving end of fraud allegations.

Occam's razor dictates that the most likely explanation here is that a solid state battery doesn't yet exist for mass production.

This doesnt seem like slick marketing, it seems like deception. And you can't fault a single person for thinking so.

 

[ZeusDriver]

Not exactly confidence-inspiring, unless you mean confidence artist... "Finnish native Marko Lehtimäki previously had a career as a Christian rapper, before building a smartphone app that solved some problem and reportedly made him a millionaire. " Sauce

lol

-Zap

Nor is this very confidence inspiring: " South African native Elon Musk, who claims he is a Cultural Christian, built Zip 2, a city guide that solved some problem and reportedly made him a millionaire. This despite having no education beyond the bachelor's level. "

 

[Shmoe]

Nor is this very confidence inspiring: " South African native Elon Musk, who claims he is a Cultural Christian, built Zip 2, a city guide that solved some problem and reportedly made him a millionaire. This despite having no education beyond the bachelor's level. "

Elon is very good at hiring teams of engineers. This is pretty much where anything good about him takes a flying leap off a cliff.

 

[mr.Magoo]

Not exactly confidence-inspiring, unless you mean confidence artist... "Finnish native Marko Lehtimäki previously had a career as a Christian rapper, before building a smartphone app that solved some problem and reportedly made him a millionaire. " Sauce

and yet some people start an online auction site and are proclaimed geniuses and others are movie / TV show personalities and become president, but hey, that's totally different, right

 

[Shmoe]

and yet some people start an online auction site and are proclaimed geniuses and others are movie / TV show personalities and become president, but hey, that's totally different, right

Some of that simply demonstrates a lapse of judgement of the public rather than bestowing any good things upon the individual.

 

[ZeusDriver]

The intentional shadiness of staying dark, only revealing partial information. Accusing everyone else of being the problem because "we're the real deal".

I've never relied on "Just Trust Us" for anything, and I'm not about to start now.

If they won't lay their cards down, it isn't anyone else's fault but theirs that they're on the receiving end of fraud allegations.

Occam's razor dictates that the most likely explanation here is that a solid state battery doesn't yet exist for mass production.

This doesnt seem like slick marketing, it seems like deception. And you can't fault a single person for thinking so.

The intentional shadiness of staying dark, only revealing partial information. Accusing everyone else of being the problem because "we're the real deal".
I didn't get that impression from his presentation. He seemed to outline the way things have gone, with the expected skepticism, but he didn't seem to be accusing others.

I've been a serial entrepreneur, and there are may good reasons for not revealing everything until the right time (your "shadiness of staying dark"). There are many reasons for not revealing chemistry and structure until you're darn sure that the patents will be granted and not easily worked around.

(Ford has UEV's driving around. They are not handing them to Motor Trend are they? They must be crooks! All that camouflaging of pre-production cars that all the manufacturers do: FRAUD!)

I've never relied on "Just Trust Us" for anything, and I'm not about to start now.
Did he say that? Granted, I probably skipped ahead several times, but the key point that he made is that the testing has been done, (and VTT has verified that is has been done) and the first video discussing the tests is coming out in two days. Are you aware that "I Donut Believe" is a play on words highlighting the fact that there are plenty of skeptics. He is not saying "Trust Us. He is saying, "you might not believe, but here are the test results."

If they won't lay their cards down, it isn't anyone else's fault but theirs that they're on the receiving end of fraud allegations.
They are laying their cards down. Having an outfit the caliber of VTT do the testing is better than some others in this space have done. Declaring shipping of production vehicles by March seems like a very rapid laying down of cards.

If they were saying "just trust us for the next two years" (like most SS vendors have done repeatedly) then I'd be more skeptical. (I remain skeptical re Donut Lab's claims, but I have no real evidence to support the skepticism... obviously QuantumScape says it's bullshit... but there is some very strong bias there: they -- and other SS projects -- are doomed if DL claims are even remotely close to being accurate. )

Occam's razor dictates that the most likely explanation here is that a solid state battery doesn't yet exist for mass production.
The simplest explanation is that they are on schedule, until, and if, they fail to remain so. If we are still awaiting the first video of test results next week at this time, then we can fire up some more skepticism. Until then, calling bullshit is just noise or bullying.

This doesnt seem like slick marketing, it seems like deception. And you can't fault a single person for thinking so.
I have no control over what people think. There is, however, a difference between healthy skepticism and unhealthy skepticism and bullying. If there is to be any utility in the discussion, then those on both sides of an argument need to present evidence. The fact that Lehtimaki was a Christian rapper does not pass the sniff test for meaningful evidence of wrongdoing.

If you have evidence, from a highly-regarded test lab, that solid state batteries are a hoax, then now is the time to present it.

For perspective: So far, this does not scream deception in the way that Tesla's claims for FSD over the last decade have. They were wildly deceptive and aimed at stock price pumping. Not once in those years did I say, "Oh yes, that seems reasonable" when, every year, Musk would claim that FSD would, by the end of that year, take you across the country while you slept in the back seat. He was obviously lying. My 2024 Tesla actually got worse, rather than better with one update: it went from poor (but able to track speed limit changes) to awful, (unable to correctly respond to speed limits.) Given that trajectory, in another year, it would be completely unusable under any circumstance.

Lehtimaki is not doing anything so egregious as that. He is just saying that the testing has been done. It has been done (unless you have evidence that VTT is lying). He's given himself not a full year (and then another and then another...); he is saying 2 days until they release the first video. He has also said that the first bikes with the new batteries will ship in March. We have no evidence that that will not happen.

An SS battery is far simpler than getting a car to drive itself safely. (Many of us made working electrochemical cells in grade school and high school.) With the thousands of people trying, someone will hit upon the right chemistry and structure. Will that happen in a large company? Maybe; maybe not. Consider that it took Ford about ten years to come up with a desirable EV, after Tesla, starting as a small company, lead the way.

Maybe next week will show that Donut Lab is failing. But then why are they making this announcement?

 

[Shmoe]

The intentional shadiness of staying dark, only revealing partial information. Accusing everyone else of being the problem because "we're the real deal".
I didn't get that impression from his presentation. He seemed to outline the way things have gone, with the expected skepticism, but he didn't seem to be accusing others.

I've been a serial entrepreneur, and there are may good reasons for not revealing everything until the right time (your "shadiness of staying dark"). There are many reasons for not revealing chemistry and structure until you're darn sure that the patents will be granted and not easily worked around.

(Ford has UEV's driving around. They are not handing them to Motor Trend are they? They must be crooks! All that camouflaging of pre-production cars that all the manufacturers do: FRAUD!)

Are you really comparing this stealth startup to Ford?

That said, I won't believe the UEV is actually coming until someone on this forum drives one off a lot after what they've pulled with the Lightning.

But you most certainly lost me right here..

 

[ZeusDriver]

Are you really comparing this stealth startup to Ford?

Heck No!!! I would not want to insult Donut Lab like that.

 

[Shmoe]

Heck No!!! I would not want to insult Donut Lab like that.

For one, one is bound by public company regulation.. the other can lie their asses off until proven fraudulent later in a lawsuit.

 

[Shmoe]

Heck No!!! I would not want to insult Donut Lab like that.

You sure you're not running social media for DL?

 

[El Duderino]

I still Donut believe him

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