We need a snow driving mode

[Adventureboy]

also worth adding that some recent research is showing that hard acceleration is actually good for battery longevity (also the opposite of ICE)!

I'm testing this theory. No babying here - Got it and will use it. My SOH is 100% after 2 years and 30,000mi.

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[Henry Ford]

The big thing here though is that and EV drivetrain doesn't really change efficiency when pressed hard, and ICE drivetrain does greatly.

Although when accelerating hard you use more current, you do so for a shorter period of time, and hence the energy consumed isn't really much different that having lower current for a longer period of time.

In an ICE engine it is different, high load but low RPM (accelerating slowly) is much more efficient than high load but high RPM.

Point being, accelerating hard in an EV doesn't really cost you much "extra energy", you just consume at a higher rate for a shorter period. That is different than an ice engine since it changes efficiency.

This is my understanding. I'm no expert but I don't see where you could lose efficiency by accelerating hard except for wheel spin. Heat loss? Not really.?

ICE is a whole other animal. They are most efficient at a certain RPM and load and any variation from that hurts efficiency. There's probably drivetrain efficiency loss due to shifting too but that's beyond my grasp.

 

[farmtruck]

Serious question, what does eco-mode do? It's my understanding there isn't significant efficiency loss from accelerating quickly in EVs.

What I could see is eco-mode disconnecting a wheel motor if the load is low enough to allow it.

 

[Grease Lightning]

EV drivetrain doesn't really change efficiency when pressed hard

That would be true in our Lightnings, but that is not true in all EV, so word of caution for more definitive type generalizations.

There are EV that can decouple the front and rear drive train after the needed acceleration has been completed and the needed energy to maintain a speed. So in those types of EVs, yes an “eco” mode does provide acceleration savings while only having those two or more big motors spinning when you hammer it. Similar to how a hybrid/PHEV can force the ICE element on at certain loads, but a gentle throttle can keep it in EV mode.

much "extra energy"

Again “much” and “extra” are subjective to the user. As your statement notes, it does use extra energy and the quantitative aspect varies by duration of time, conditions, frequency, and such. If I am getting on a freeway entrance and going straight down a flat road with no wind, sure little impact. If I am in the town jackrabbit starts or on a two lane highway constantly passing people by “haul’n ballz”, then again a lot more impact.

But I also love my Lightning’s efficiency over 20k is 2.4-2.5 m/kWh average ? so I would always take the option to control my tech rather then the tech controlling me. ?

 

[astrand1]

I disagree and believe that this is more of a driver problem than a problem with current throttle mapping. Also, regen is fine in winter conditions just as long as you don't treat the throttle like an on-off switch. How else have other EVs with regen and no way to turn off or dial down the inversion strength manage to operate in the snow after all these years?

I agree. My truck normally just stays in normal mode with one pedal on. For me it’s all about modulating the pedal correctly to slow down and speed up in snow. I’ve not had a problem at all. And I’m on the stock hankooks. This truck has such good traction it really is impressive.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Of the ones I have seen that decouple the front motor they claim to do so during steady state driving, but that does not mean they do so under acceleration, even light or moderate acceleration. The effect of decoupling the motor is very slight and arguably would be insignificant in the 10-30 second acceleration events, as opposed to the multi-hour cruise time frame. Remember, we are discussing the difference between acceleration styles, not general efficiency.



No, quantity of energy is the ONLY measure here, and for that time must to be included. Trip efficiency is a measure of how much energy was used over the duration. Comparing the rate of energy usage is simply comparing peak horsepower applied, not the quantity. You don't measure a trip by the KW, you measure it by the KWh. And the comparison is one acceleration style to the next, to achieve the same effect. Obviously driving much faster uses more energy, just as driving much farther does. We know driving at a high rate of speed uses both energy at a higher rate and a larger quantity of energy (for the same drive). The question is if how fast you get to the same speed makes a difference. To have the discussion you have to control the variables otherwise we are comparing a track day vs driving grandma three blocks to church.

You missed my after acceleration for the decouple….

And yes there is more to “total energy” when it comes to efficiency and if slow or hard acceleration is the best case. If I expend 1 kW in 1 minute, I am way less efficient per mile than 1 kW over an hour, for example. Then the duration of the draw at 1kW per minute directly correlates to when the 1 kW per hour becomes the norm and has greater influence on overriding the less efficient factor. For example of your efficiency was .5 m/kW for 9 measurements and the 10th measurement was 3.5 m/kW your average is only .8 m/kW. Whereas the inverse would give you 3.2 m/kW average.

So as I stated you have to take into account the energy expended based on the sample. Such as how long the more demanding draw is, how frequently that demand occurs, not to mention all the other environmental factors that would impact such a calculation.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Apply 100kw for 10 seconds, or 50kw for 20 seconds, you will achieve the same kinetic energy

What you applied time. Shocked. Thanks for proving my point without proving my point ?

Also thanks for again showing the lack of grasping that I am talking efficiency not the total energy. ?‍??

And by the way kinetic energy includes a factor you have yet to consider as you are obsessing about total energy rather then my discussion on efficiency… speed…

KE depends on an object's mass and speed, and is calculated using the formula KE = 1/2 * mass * velocity^2 ??

 

[Grease Lightning]

You were the one who said you DID NOT need time, it was ME who said time was a component.

Dude I think you might need to reread my entire thread, then realize I stopped caring like 4 hours ago cause you have your opinion and it is wrong and that is fine.

the quantitative aspect varies by duration of time, conditions, frequency, and such.

Weird I replied to you with time…who would have thought….of yeah me the entire time I was blowing your thesis apart.

Goodnight good sir, until the next debate

 

[Grease Lightning]

Gaslighting, and the old "i just wrote 2000 words but actually I don't care" . I do believe I struck a nerve.

Nope, just don’t see the need to continue in a meaningless debate with a person that’s reading comprehension is interfering with them understanding they have went in a circle to finally after multiple reply’s states the same things I said in the beginning, because I actually understand the concept.

Again goodbye and good luck trying to convince yourself you know what you think I should believe.

 

[Grease Lightning]

Gaslighting

And btw here is the concept of “gaslighting”.

Gaslighting is a colloquialism, defined as manipulating someone into questioningb their own perception of reality.

If you are trying to insult or infer something, at least have the common decency to use a dictionary to ensure you are using the right words for the situation, if not it just brings doubts to so so many things. ??

 

[I <3 My Lightning]

Nothing is as good as the driver's sensibilities with planning trips, using proper following distances, and simply not driving like a jerk and respecting what you are operating.

Now to 1pd and snow mode. Our first EV venture is a Kia ev6 AWD that is rear biased with a bigger motor.

With its 4 drive modes (one being snow), multiple levels of auto regen , multiple levels of regen, and even regen braking paddles, that vehicle needs the snow mode as a traction control safety feature.

The kias full 1 pd drive mode is super aggressive. You have to set it after every start cycle, kia makes you take ownership with using it.

The EV6's Snow mode and 1 pedal is more like the lightnings normal 1 pd mode. The vehicles weight and power distribution differences puts the driving dynamics on par. To me that roll back manual clutch feel/coast to a stop with your foot off the accelerator that you learn how to time, is about the same feel in my opinion.

Test driving any vehicle of any make or model you are always trying to compare it to another, but every vehicle is fine tuned to its fiscal limitations, equipment, and regulations. Once you settle and purchase, you learn to live with it...

Is the lightning the best snow capable vehicle that you can drive with the 1 pedal feature? Not sure, but with dedicated snow tires it will be better than without.

 

[Adventureboy]

Task management, or in recognized pilots terms, task saturation or cogitative overload.

Very often in slippery conditions you just need to coast down, either from an upcoming situation, or because traction for steering is more important than accelerating or braking. With 1pd drive enabled, NOT braking requires cognitive load. In essence part of your focus is now forced to manage the accelerator when that focus could be better utilized elsewhere. And I know its easy to claim that this isn't an issue, and for most on an empty road it isn't. The issue is that in a developing situation, such as an accident ahead on the highway, a LOT is happening all at once. And unlike simply sliding a bit, instead now the driver is trying to process all of those things AND also trying to NOT brake and NOT accelerate.

Not saying its impossible but having delt with a lot of snow driving quite frequently it is a lot more than simply "don't slide".

The cognitive load completely depends on your experience. I’ve driven rear wheel drive, front wheel drive, 4 wheel drive, all wheel drive, automatic transmission, and manual transmission and while the actions may be slightly different in different conditions, the concept is exactly the same - keep the wheels turning to keep the steering working - this requires gentle input in slippery conditions. In the case of EV OPD, just don’t take your foot completely off the accelerator or it will brake. Standard transmissions are the same. If you hit ice on a front wheel drive standard transmissions, and you take your foot completely off the accelerator, the engine braking is similar to OPD regen and you may find yourself spinning pretty quickly. The goal is to stop all acceleration/deceleration so you can maximize steering. Put the pedal in that position.

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