Why Are So Many Public EV Chargers Broken?

[msadan]

It's a fair video and fact focused. Range anxiety is real and if you have it, that video is compelling evidence to either buy ICE, a hybrid or wait a few more years before giving BEV's another chance.

Or buy a Tesla.

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[djwildstar]

I would think that rural areas would qualify as "disadvantaged" over most of the country. Those are the areas that are most in need of DCFC. Folks in cities all charge at home.

Yes. Here's a map from the ArcGIS public site -- blue areas are disadvantaged in at least one of the eight possible categories. The darker the blue color, the more categories are disadvantaged.

 

[RickLightning]

Does anyone know why there are not more charging locations installed at gas stations? There is a couple in the southern plains at Buckeyes etc and they are very convenient. Seems like it would be a good idea to expand in this way.
also a great deal of the complexity comes from network issues related to payment, that’s why it’s so much easier to charge at home or at a campground.

Assuming you mean Buc-ee's, they have a massive power setup there with hundreds of gas pumps. And money.

Most gas stations are not capable of that.

There are multiple gas station chains adding EVSEs. Pilot, Sheetz, Wawa, Royal Farms...

 

[chl]

A free charging station (L2 at Walgreens) J1772 handle/plug was apparently vandalized in my area - it could have been accidentally run over after someone left it laying in the parking space, pretty unlikely I'd guess that an EV owner would leave the plug on the pavement though.

Some people have reported their EV's being vandalized. Hasn't happened to me, but I have encountered some open hositility (verbal) on the road driving, first when driving our hybrid (2005 Prius) and then driving my EV (2012 Leaf), but less and less as time goes. I see more and more EVs on the road now. mostly Teslas, but now quite a few Lightnings.

If I could generalize, most EV drivers seem to be happy drivers, and a few ICE drivers seem to be angry hostile resentful (of what?) drivers. Is it the price of gas? Is it their CO exhaust their are breathing too much of? Is it the noise their tail-pipes and engines make grating on their nerves? Or just that they can't tolerate change?

Go figure.

Many gas stations are company owned, but even franchises may not want to install EV charging stations because of the competition with oil/gas - short-sighted of course, but then the profit margin on selling electricity may not be as high as it is for gas/oil, and many gas stations make their bread and butter on service and repair, which EVs need very little of in my experience.

 

[WhipSticks]

Does anyone know why there are not more charging locations installed at gas stations? There is a couple in the southern plains at Buckeyes etc and they are very convenient. Seems like it would be a good idea to expand in this way.
also a great deal of the complexity comes from network issues related to payment, that’s why it’s so much easier to charge at home or at a campground.

It has to do with rate practices by electricity suppliers. The standard practice is to bill at a low commercial rate in urban areas for the usage under a threshold kWh supply. But as soon as draw crosses that threshold, the cost the power cos. bill goes up a lot. Car charging stations would operate frequently above that supply rate and would struggle to be financially viable. The truth is our base electrical infrastructure just isn't ready for wide-spread adoption of EVs.

There are charging stations that operate by filling an energy storage battery at the "pump", and dump those electrons into cars when they pull up. This allows the battery to refill at low draw rates that stay inside the low-cost supply rate threshold. It works in low usage areas, where pumps can slowly recharge over time between vehicles. But if you pull up to one of these after someone just pulls out... forgedaboutit... you are looking at 15kWh max.

 

[WhipSticks]

Also, the profit at most gas stops these days isn't in the gas, it's in the impulse buys at the payment counter. The 5 minutes a customer spends inside buying snacks etc. is where they make money. EVs will show up in places that cater to 30-40 min stops: sit down eateries, shopping areas, tourist shops etc.. "Convenience" stores that cater to 3-5 min interactions won't profit much by catering to EVs. Maybe we will see a comeback in the drive-in theatre, or drive-in diner!

 

[hturnerfamily]

I think much of our angst, as EV owners who 'travel', is about:
A) Locations of charger options
B) Reliability and
C) Parking 'room' at chargers, especially for those while towing

right now, COST is probably the lowest on the list, since we have 'not many' options in the first place

A) LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION... and I'm not sure what any discussion about 'disadvantaged areas' would have to do with DC Fast Charging, if that's what our main concern is. TRAVEL is what fast charging is for, not local. I don't need one near my home. I need one ALONG THE WAY while I am traveling. The answer? Not clear, but at least a single 50kw fast charger option every 10 miles would not hurt my feelings. FASTER chargers are certainly great when you have that option, but speed may not necessarily solve the 'range anxiety' issue for most potential EV buyers/users. WHERE DO YOU CHARGE? is the most common question I ever get posed to me.

B) If chargers of any location, speed, or cost are not WORKING, then all of this is meaningless. I can imagine that property owners are not heavily involved, and may not understand, or even CARE about their hardware or operations. There may be little incentive since they may be responsible for repair costs. That's how CHARGEPOINT works. Yes, you can contract with Chargepoint for 'maintenance', I suppose, but then the property owner tends to simply sit back and let Chargepoint handle any issues. If charger owners are not involved, this is not going to solve itself anytime soon. EA owns their own hardware and maintenance, but, yes, whether they can 'get to' their chargers on a quick and ready basis seems to be the question. I don't know if it's that they don't really 'care' to, or they have a lack of employees, or they are just willing to put more money into expansion versus maintenance.

C) Even if chargers are available, and working, PARKING space and maneuverability seems to be a big issue with MANY locations, and for a lot of different reasons. A very large expansive Walmart parking lot seems a great idea, until you realize that EA has shoved the 4 to 8 charging Parking spaces up near the front door, near all the 'traffic' coming and going, and also deciding to install concrete pedestals to 'deter' the ability to 'pull thru'. We need REMOTE charging spaces, with WIDE bearths, and end 'pull thru/next to' Charger pedestal options... don't 'squeeze' all the Chargers into a 'curbed' space where parking at the charger is a chore for newer LARGER trucks, like ours.
I've seen many Charger stations where it seemed someone put some 'thought' into how to best design the entrance/exit and the space needed... those are a joy to arrive at. Those that seem to have had NO thought into their practical usage, for other than 'compact' EVs, are a sad state of affairs.

NONE of this will solve itself overnight, and I understand that so well... and I accept that as just part of my 'adoption' of the truck EV lifestyle in the early years of this type of 'sea change' in logistics...
I don't think most other 'average' folks will. At least, not yet.

 

[roadhouse]

about 'disadvantaged areas' would have to do with DC Fast Charging, if that's what our main concern is. TRAVEL is what fast charging is for, not local.

"Disadvantaged areas" likely also encompasses "Coaltown USA, population 1000" in the middle of a flyover state with no DCFC within 100mi - which is exactly where we need more chargers.

 

[WhipSticks]

TRAVEL is what fast charging is for, not local. I don't need one near my home.

I agree. Mostly. I want to add, though, that urban environments are different. If you own a car in a city and don't have driveway (remember, this is high density housing... no a lot of room for charger installations) the math on where chargers need to be is different. Eventually we will need to have accessible charging everywhere. Gas is going away.

 

[davehu]

Assuming you mean Buc-ee's, they have a massive power setup there with hundreds of gas pumps. And money.

Most gas stations are not capable of that.

There are multiple gas station chains adding EVSEs. Pilot, Sheetz, Wawa, Royal Farms...

typical gas stations don't have facilities or space for vehicles to park for 30-40 minutes. but from a marketing standpoint when you know you have a captive audience for that amount of time, you must capatilize on it and sell other stuff, ie food, shopping, etc. Buckies and Flying J are great examples.

 

[Calvin H-C]

Instead of gas stations, I'm confused why a fast food company hasn't partnered with EA or EVgo to install chargers at locations by interstates.

Even more chargers at casual dining places as well would be nice.

That said, in the six years of having a Focus Electric, we have chosen places to eat where chargers were available AND took a moment to fill out their survey to make it clear our choice of them over a competitor was because of the charging available.

I recommend that more of us provide this sort of feedback as often as possible - perhaps they just don't know what business it could potentially bring.

 

[invertedspear]

Instead of gas stations, I'm confused why a fast food company hasn't partnered with EA or EVgo to install chargers at locations by interstates.

You can only poke around the rows of junk food so much in a gas station waiting 30 to 40 minutes for a charge, but you can sit down for something to eat in a restaurant.

On a trip from Phoenix, AZ to Odessa, TX my favorite charge stop was the EA that was incorporated into a Sonic drive-in in the middle of Nowheresville Texas. I didn't particularly want Sonic for lunch, but that's what we ate, cause we were going to be stopped there for 30 minute whether we ate or not.

 

[hturnerfamily]

I agree. Mostly. I want to add, though, that urban environments are different. If you own a car in a city and don't have driveway (remember, this is high density housing... no a lot of room for charger installations) the math on where chargers need to be is different. Eventually we will need to have accessible charging everywhere. Gas is going away.

Locals don't need FAST CHARGING, which is what the current issue is, not Level 2 'slow' charging, which is what 'intercity' owners without their own charging options where they live is referring to.
Level 2 charging is easy. It's just tapping into local 120v or 240v power.
DC Fast Charging is a totally different discussion, and what the issue at hand is about.

 

[WhipSticks]

Take a look at this.

It is a residential city block. Each house you see is likely a three family triple decker. Each unit would be between 1000 and 1500 sq ft.. Only a few houses on each block have dedicated parking, and when there is dedicated parking for a house it might be 2-3 spots tip-to-tail. You could not arrange EV charging in such driveways. For all other houses, we are talking about street parking... somewhere... maybe 2 blocks from where you live, maybe right out front on a good day. Sure, cities have some lvl 2 charging infrastructure, but how do you think that works? Folks who have gas cars fill their tanks at local gas stations (there are 3 within a 1 min drive of this block). Folks who buy EVs in this environment need fast DC fast charging as much as folks in the middle of nowhere do. Maybe even more, because they CANNOT level 2 charge at home like folks with land can.

 

[HitchRide]

Out here in Seattle, I’ve noticed a lot of cut cords. Anything “copper” equates to $ for those living day to day (the new catalytic converter). I’m a new owner and have only charged at home but have been checking out charging stations around town to get a sense of availability. Having just installed the Station Pro unit with the cost of a 35’ run from the panel and 25’ of charging cord opened my eyes.
Good to hear cut/stolen cords not mentioned as a reason of frustration in other areas.

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