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Will companies adopt the Tesla NACS and drop CCS?

ivan256

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This is exactly what I've been telling people.. at least those of us who were around and aware of it in the beta vs VHS days. All too often the better standard is left behind in favor of what we already have or what is more convenient at the time.

CCS is just fine. Tesla is technically superior and more elegant, but in the end it's not going to make one bit of difference to Joe Consumer. People will have to buy adapters for a while. Some companies, most likely just Tesla, will incorporate both plugs on their upcoming vehicles. Eventually everything will be the same or perhaps changed to a new universal standard in the next decade or two or three.
I suspect that the conventional wisdom here is already etched in stone just like the VHS vs. Beta debate. However just like with VHS vs. Beta we're remembering it wrong.

Beta was worse. So is NACS.

Beta had select qualities that were better than its VHS counterpart. The picture quality could be slightly better. But consumers wanted a tape that could hold a whole movie, and at full quality Beta tapes only held an hour of video. Later they added a slower speed recording mode to Beta called "Beta II", but the picture quality was worse than SP VHS. Beta was worse for what the market wanted, and thus it lost. Years later we all seem to remember that Beta was better, but VHS won and it's become a story we all tell as fact.

Maybe the same will happen here. It seems to already be pretty well established as conventional wisdom that this new Tesla backed connector is technically superior. But is it? Why do we think that? It looks like it's technically inferior in a prettier form factor.
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nanohead

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Actually, its much deeper than all of this. CCS is an international standard, agreed to by not just a ton of automobile manufacturers, but also the charging equipment "supply chain" companies who actually make the charging stuff. Just like they agree on thread patterns for fasteners, voltages for batteries and electrical devices, tire sizes and form factors, and loads of other mundane stuff you never notice in the cars you drive.

It has zero to do with "better". Been an engineer in the electronics/software/hardware/aerospace business for nearly 40 years, I've seen people get emotional over goofy things like connectors and standards with funky buzzwords, there's almost NEVER a case where there's a clear "better". Like the dumb Apple fanboi argument that Lightning connectors are better than USB C. Nope, different shape, same basic functions. Literally doesn't matter one iota (arguably, USB-C is more modern, as it has 24 lanes vs 16 for apples connector)

As far as EV charging, there are several "standards". And BTW, Tesla's form factor is absolutely NOT a standard, its proprietary to Tesla. That's not bad or good. It just is. They needed it at the time, so they took the initiative, and it worked for them. Also, it literally doesn't matter if "Tesla is opening their patents". Who cares, those patents aren't worth the paper they're written on anymore. There's literally no magic in molding plastic to house current carrying connectors attached to wires. Its just not important in the larger scheme of things.

Oh and this one makes me insane. No, Betamax wasn't better than VHS. They both did exactly the same thing. Some revisionists claim that Beta had a better picture... hogwash. How in the world could you measure that in an old NTSC 480 CRT world? Right, you couldn't...
 

PungoteagueDave

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Hard no. Zero chance. Tesla screwed this pooch right up front. There won't be even a nanosecond of consideration for this option by a single non-Tesla manufacturer.
 

ctuan13

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Discussed several times already.

No. No one is moving to Tesla's standard.
The only company I've seen that will implement the Tesla standard out of the gate is Aptera, but that is almost entirely because of the personal beliefs of the founders and the design constraints of the charging port location on the vehicle.

I don't see any other automakers following suit.
 

chl

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Discussed several times already.

No. No one is moving to Tesla's standard.
Tesla should have done it sooner. Changing horses in mid-stream is not something the other major car makers getting on the EV bandwagon will do.

One has to wonder about Musk's motivation in throwing a wrench into the EV charging connector mess at this point. The standards body, of which Tesla is a member, already decided on CCS - in Europe it was accepted way back in 2012 by the ACEA.

Tesla itself sells an adapter for their vehicles so they can use CCS.

With the roll out of the TESLA semi and the coming CYBERTRUCK, the word is both will be able to use their 1+MEGA charging stations, a 1000volt system. That system uses a cable equipped with a cooling tube to keep it from melting due to the high current in V3 and V4 versions.

Yet, Tesla claims the NACS is 1MW capable, with a new version V4 with built in cooling, and they are planning on upgrading their supercharging network to handle 1MW charging.

"...As Tesla outlined last month, its charging connector, now called NACS, is good for up to 1 megawatt with a new configuration of the same connector. .."

Beside putting in a reservation for a Lightning in 2021, I had already put a reservation in for the Cybertruck in 2019. I want to replace my 2012 Nissan Leaf and 2001 Ford Ranger...still waiting for the Cybertruck to come to market and to see what the starting price will be. Musk promised a 500 mile range, we'll see.

As far as fast charging goes...do I care what standard is used? Marginally, since I do not plan on using fast charging very often, if at all. Because fast charging shortens battery lifespan with Li batteries and the battery is the most expensive single component of an EV right now.

If @Ford Motor Company would change the overall design of the Lightning to be aerodynamically better - more tear-drop shape and less of a box - and use mor light-weight components (composite fiber) - the Lightning's range could be greatly improved.

Some estimates are that up to 65% of the energy used in vehicle travel is expended on drag, which includes tire friction and the pushing of air out of the way by the car body. Imagine if a jet plane were box shaped. Wouldn't work would it.

Pushing a boxy vehicle down the road is a waste of energy - in an EV that's even more important.
Competitively Tesla has some advantages in the charging area - they built a US network of superchargers so they have ahead start there - they have CCS to NACS adapter compatibility - they are planning to upgrade to 1MW fast charging.

So maybe if fast charging for long trips in a truck is your need, then maybe the Lightning is not the best option.

Seems to me the Lightning is a good choice a a local range work vehicle, except for the price.
They say every $5,000 in vehicle price drop increases the market by a factor of 2.

But the design of the Lightning is inefficient for long travel due to weight, shape and battery size.
 

RickLightning

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One has to wonder about Musk's motivation in throwing a wrench into the EV charging connector mess at this point.
If you have to wonder why Musk would throw a wrench into ANYTHING, you haven't been paying much attention these last few years.
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