Will max towing option improve Lightning's range?

[SeanOC]

So my order is in for Lariat ER. I do not plan to do any towing so I did not select max towing option. I am second guessing myself though after reading about what the option includes: Doubles the cooling capacity for increased battery efficiency. Considering the truck monitors and gives us the ability to monitor both battery and motor temps I wonder if I will regret not having the improved cooling, even without towing. If range is improved, even marginally it may be worth the extra $ for me.

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[adoublee]

Do you plan to fast charge a lot? If not I don't think you would notice a difference since that and apparently now towing are what really heat things up. If so, you'd maybe see faster charging on the second one and additional fast charges on a road trip. That is when Nissan Leaf without any active cooling was found to need to protect itself from excessive battery heat.

 

[SeanOC]

Do you plan to fast charge a lot? If not I don't think you would notice a difference since that and apparently now towing are what really heat things up. If so, you'd maybe see faster charging on the second one and additional fast charges on a road trip. That is when Nissan Leaf without any active cooling was found to need to protect itself from excessive battery heat.

Good call, I didn't think about fast charging. No, we would be doing about 2 road trips with the truck a year so not a lot of fast charging. I would love to know how much the added cooling reduces fast charging times though.

 

[beatle]

It might be something or it might be nothing. I think there are others like me that ordered it just in case there is a difference since it's not a lot of money, and it likely cannot be retrofitted easily. A lot of heat is generated when DCFC, but the truck also charges at a leisurely 150kw max so maybe heat is of little concern. Perhaps it will only limit when active cooling is used which would keep the truck a bit quieter.

 

[adoublee]

Good call, I didn't think about fast charging. No, we would be doing about 2 road trips with the truck a year so not a lot of fast charging. I would love to know how much the added cooling reduces fast charging times though.

It very well may not at all. It could also be same day one but max tow vehicles could get a different charge curve on release or with future updates when more field data has been gathered. Seems like it is buying into an experiment, but they think it is necessary for reliable heavy towing.

 

[vandy1981]

It might be something or it might be nothing. I think there are others like me that ordered it just in case there is a difference since it's not a lot of money, and it likely cannot be retrofitted easily. A lot of heat is generated when DCFC, but the truck also charges at a leisurely 150kw max so maybe heat is of little concern. Perhaps it will only limit when active cooling is used which would keep the truck a bit quieter.

I don't think it will have a huge impact on range without towing load, but I do think it's going to affect charging speeds.

Charging power is leisurely relative to the Hyundai e-GMP and the Porsche J1 800 V platforms. That said, 150 kw (actually 155 kw max for the ER pack) is not that leisurely from a thermal standpoint for the Lightning's 400v system. That would put the lightning at 375 amps and the CCS1 standard only allows for 500 amps at the tap.

I suspect that Max Tow is going to have tangible effects on the DC and 80 amp AC charging curves. @VTbuckeye pointed out the discrepancy in charging time on the window stickers on the Platinum vs Lariat ER in a thread on another forum. Assuming it's not an error, the only thing that can account for this is the fact that Max Tow is standard on Platinum and optional on other trims.

 

[LightningShow]

The reason I ordered the Max Tow was the potential that it might improve the fast charging curve, since I won't likely be towing loads near the max capacity. I would think that Ford could up the max charge rate for DCFC and have a longer time at max current if the trucks are performing well, thermally, once they get on the road. It makes sense that the trucks with the Max Tow package might get a different charging current limit and charging curve.

 

[VTbuckeye]

Even if you won't max tow often, if the manual says 7700 max without any you are towing 8000 then you are outside the spec. It is more significant with the Sr battery. 5k without max tow is not that much. Even if the rest of the power train is the same if the specifications say 5k, then 5k it is. Extra cooling capacity is always a good thing to have.

I just looked at the window stickers again. Plat 9.3hours, pro er 10.1 (no tow package listed) lariat ER with max tow 10.1, pro sr 11.9. For what it's worth the lariat ER/pro er and platinum were probably tested on different days with a different charge cable (longer run with barely adequate wires so more voltage drop) or both read zero, but one was deeper into zero than the other, or one tapered more slowly from 90 to 100 percent?

 

[beatle]

I can't see the outboard charging equipment factoring into the charging speed. I would think that would be tightly regulated to prevent a "hot" charge @ 250v or similar. Is charging equipment a variable in the test? I would not think it is since it is not part of the vehicle.

10.1 (Lariat ER + max tow) vs 9.3 (Platinum ER + max tow) is an 8% difference which is not insignificant. Pro ER is also 10.1 so max tow does not seem to be a factor.

None of the trucks utilize the full 19.2kw throughout the charging process. The Platinum averages 14.08kw and the other ER trucks are 12.97kw average. I know the last few percentage points can take exponentially longer than the others.

They seem to use an 85% charging efficiency rating. For the Lariat ER: 131kwh battery / .48kw per mile = 272 miles / .85 charging efficiency = 320 miles of range.

Platinum ER works out to be ~302 using the same math.

 

[adoublee]

I just looked at the window stickers again. Plat 9.3hours, pro er 10.1 (no tow package listed) lariat ER with max tow 10.1, pro sr 11.9. For what it's worth the lariat ER/pro er and platinum were probably tested on different days with a different charge cable (longer run with barely adequate wires so more voltage drop) or both read zero, but one was deeper into zero than the other, or one tapered more slowly from 90 to 100 percent?

Good catch on difference. The only thing that makes any sense to me is that max tow option has an impact at peak 240VAC and is not included in calculations for anything but Platinum that max tow is included with. Note that the original spec sheet has all ERs charging from 80A EVSE at 30 miles of charge per hour, and ER target was 300 miles for a 10 hour charge about equal to the non-Platinum ER sticker rate.

Now extended range is an "option" on the Pro ER that does get the larger battery included in the sticker calculations. But maybe that is the only option that makes its way into the sticker calculations. If true, I'd call 8.6% speed improvement at 240VAC a meaningful charge curve advantage, which could be even bigger at DCFC!

 

[vandy1981]

Good catch on difference. The only thing that makes any sense to me is that max tow option has an impact at peak 240VAC and is not included in calculations for anything but Platinum that max tow is included with.

I think that's the reason, assuming Ford didn't make an error or intentionally de-rated charging curve programming on everything but the Platinum trim.

They may only rate the standard-optioned build with each trim+battery pack combo (Pro SR, Pro ER, XLT SR, XLT ER, Lariat SR, Lariat ER, Platinum). There's only one battery type in the Platinum and Max Tow is standard within the trim. That would imply that Max Tow explains the difference in charging times. There's no other mechanical difference between ER trims that would affect charging speeds.

 

[adoublee]

I think that's the reason, assuming Ford didn't make an error or intentionally de-rated charging curve programming on everything but the Platinum trim.

They may only rate the standard-optioned build with each trim+battery pack combo (Pro SR, Pro ER, XLT SR, XLT ER, Lariat SR, Lariat ER, Platinum). There's only one battery type in the Platinum and Max Tow is standard within the trim. That would imply that Max Tow explains the difference in charging times. There's no other mechanical difference between ER trims that would affect charging speeds.

Agree - maybe they should have called it the a charging-maintenence option instead of max tow option, and required it for higher tow ratings. Can't wait to see comparisons - gotta think testing media is going to only get loaned vehicles with max tow.

On last Fridays Insideevs podcast @tommolog effectively said Ford called him and told him he wants to add max tow...

 

[vandy1981]

On last Fridays Insideevs podcast @tommolog effectively said Ford called him him and told him he wants to add max tow...

I noticed that too and thought it was weird that they went out of their way to tell him that. The most likely explanation is that Max Tow has impact on both the AC and DC charging curves and they want him to have the best possible setup for range/charging curve testing.

 

[SeanOC]

I noticed that too and thought it was weird that they went out of their way to tell him that. The most likely explanation is that Max Tow has impact on both the AC and DC charging curves and they want him to have the best possible setup for range/charging curve testing.

Thanks for this, it helped make my decision to upgrade to the MTP easy. I also removed the spray in liner only because I hear it’s causing delays. For almost the same $ I’d much rather have the Improved cooling and faster charging capability..

 

[jefro]

Used to be a local sales pitch to add in tow package just for the cooling. If you drive in hot weather then there might be some benefits. I've never had any issues with my EV's in the middle of summer as it seems to be able to maintain battery to correct temps.

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