Curious why some do not use 1 pedal driving.

[Adventureboy]

This is a great question that true to EV biased form, I haven’t seen the real answer.

Which is this, one pedal driving changes the physics of how your truck handles. The most noticeable is that there is a consistent drag on the vehicle. So the inertia of the passenger experience is completely changed vs. 2 pedal.

For example, with 2-pedal driving the operator decides when to apply the brake and with what amount of force, the truck goes into a free roll scenario every so often that is slowed/stopped by brake application.

Compare that to 1 pedal, which applies the force immediately and to the degree it deems necessary, thus eliminating the free roll scenario all together, which passengers are very familiar with.

So the reasons people don’t use it build off of this reality.

1.) the driving/passenger experience is completely different.
2.) the handling of the truck in snow is different and not as good because as it turns out, allowing your truck to free roll as opposed to applying brake the entire time, is better in that circumstance.
3.) backing up and parallel parking is completely different and not as intuitive.

Now it is not to say that these are insurmountable flaws, or that I don’t personally see the value of 1 pedal driving. But it is to say that there are good reasons to avoid using it, and from a bigger picture explains yet another hurdle this truck has faced in gaining widespread adoption. Which is that while this feature is interesting, it also doesn’t come without serious tradings. And those tradeoffs either don’t get recognized by owners or even worse get suppressed by owners, only to have new people entering in the market become disillusioned by the reality of the feature or upset that the full scope of the feature wasn’t explained to them.

tl;dr: 1 pedal driving is not the same as 2 pedal driving with 1 pedal, it features new physics that change how the truck handles, sometimes good, other times bad. This is another feature that divides owners vs would be owners and is a leading response to the question “why aren’t people buying more lightnings” that people would rather not be true.

"1.) the driving/passenger experience is completely different."
I disagree. The amount to which the passengers feel the change is a direct result of how the driver operates the pedals. I guarantee my passengers do not know which mode I use. Smooth is smooth.

2.) the handling of the truck in snow is different and not as good because as it turns out, allowing your truck to free roll as opposed to applying brake the entire time, is better in that circumstance.
Again, I disagree. Free roll is a muscle memory location in OPD and works perfectly when you operate it correctly and you can apply power or deceleration much quicker with movement of one pedal. Personal choice but OPD is not a disadvantage in snow.

3.) backing up and parallel parking is completely different and not as intuitive.
Intuition is built from experience. An automatic transmission constantly pulls and you need to counteract that with brakes. It is not intuitive unless you've been trained that way. EVs are different they only pull when you step on the accelerator and stop when you don't. I'd argue that is more intuitive for a new learner. Us older folks need to relearn some things for it to work.

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[Upstate]

I have seen in some threads that some don't use the 1 pedal driving and I wonder why. I took a 60 mile drive yesterday and only had to use my breaks twice. At the rate I will likely never have to do a brake job. Plus a little energy recovered.

One Pedal Driving was the best unknown (to me) benefit of driving the truck! Try it next time you are in a slow moving traffic jam. It changes the world from frustrating and frantic to calm and easy going! You may still be stuck in traffic, but it's way more zen.

 

[WHPHLightning]

"1.) the driving/passenger experience is completely different."
I disagree. The amount to which the passengers feel the change is a direct result of how the driver operates the pedals. I guarantee my passengers do not know which mode I use. Smooth is smooth.

2.) the handling of the truck in snow is different and not as good because as it turns out, allowing your truck to free roll as opposed to applying brake the entire time, is better in that circumstance.
Again, I disagree. Free roll is a muscle memory location in OPD and works perfectly when you operate it correctly and you can apply power or deceleration much quicker with movement of one pedal. Personal choice but OPD is not a disadvantage in snow.

3.) backing up and parallel parking is completely different and not as intuitive.
Intuition is built from experience. An automatic transmission constantly pulls and you need to counteract that with brakes. It is not intuitive unless you've been trained that way. EVs are different they only pull when you step on the accelerator and stop when you don't. I'd argue that is more intuitive for a new learner. Us older folks need to relearn some things for it to work.

Good day! Here's another example illustrating what I mentioned earlier.

The purpose of this post is to explore why people choose not to use One-Pedal driving.

I’ve outlined three concrete reasons to explain this behavior.

What you’ve done mirrors a common response from early adopters— defending the feature by highlighting how they’ve personally adapted to its drawbacks. And therein lies the issue: this feature, like most, has its pros and cons. Recognizing this balance is crucial for a clearer understanding of the EV truck landscape.

Lastly, your claim about your ability to alter the effects of gravity and friction through your driving technique is certainly one I won’t be forgetting anytime soon.

Hope you have a great day!

 

[Adventureboy]

Lastly, your claim about your ability to alter the effects of gravity and friction through your driving technique is certainly one I won’t be forgetting anytime soon.

It is quite ok for us to have a difference of opinion. I will however call this comment out. The effects of gravity and friction apply the same to all vehicles and have no bearing on which drive mode you prefer.

 

[WHPHLightning]

It is quite ok for us to have a difference of opinion. I will however call this comment out. The effects of gravity and friction apply the same to all vehicles and have no bearing on which drive mode you prefer.

 

[WHPHLightning]

You see, this isn’t a matter of opinion, but one of fact.

The feature is based on leveraging gravity and friction to harness it into re-generative power.

What you are saying is that you have found a way to harness the energy, without any changes to the mechanics of the vehicle. That you are able to anticipate, read, and navigate the feature as consistently, effectively, and precisely as it is deployed.

Which is quite impossible.

Now I understand that you probably get close on some trips, depending on your type of travel, which is amazing and requires you to exert for more effort in that dynamic than say doing something else with your brain, but you can choose to do that, a choice most others would not make.

Any time you feel that tug, just know that you weren’t as consistent as you had portrayed. Also, know that you aren’t maximizing the benefits of 1 pedal driving either.

So it’s a double whammy.

Good day.

 

[rparry]

Same here.

I occasionally drive an old stick shift Toyota truck at work and my wife's ICE Highlander.

Zero issues transitioning from 1pd to the stick shift. It's too different of an experience to get confused.

Usually the first time I let off the gas pedal in the Highlander and realize that I am not slowing, the 2 pedal driving comes right back. The body/brain connection adjusts to 1pd/2pd switch pretty seamlessly.

I am an OLD driver and I do not have a problem transitioning between my EV with 1 pedal driving and my truck which is old school. The Lightning has not arrived yet. However I do worry a bit about drivers just starting to drive. We have years of reflex training that will come into effect
when needed. If you learn to always drive with 1 pedal drives, the time to hit the mechanical
brakes could be an issue in an emergency. But then there is emergency braking on these cars
so might come out in the wash, but I still think that if new drivers are not allowed to use 1 pedal
drives for say 2 years driving the reflex will be trained.

Bob

 

[evowner]

That's something I was wondering about over the weekend when I was driving my ICE Dodge down a moderately steep crappy dirt road from a radio site. In the Dodge I had the transfer case in 4x4 low and the transmission in 2nd gear. I spent more time on the gas pedal than the brake (what I intended). How does this equate to an electric drive that has no transfer case with a low range, and of course regen vs engine braking? I would assume I would be riding the brake pedal (presumably all or mostly actually regen).

OK, here is a little ditty to explain it.
Jack and Jill went up the hill in their Ford Lightning Electric Truck. On their way down they were astounded and found that they didn't have to use the brake one time and have more miles than when they started.
Remember it's just a ditty.
I think John Mellencamp sang it.

 

[evowner]

maybe its because I'm 58 years old

I don't understand, I am 70. Was there a period of time I missed that made coasting cool?

 

[Adventureboy]

What you are saying is that you have found a way to harness the energy, without any changes to the mechanics of the vehicle. That you are able to anticipate, read, and navigate the feature as consistently, effectively, and precisely as it is deployed.

Not what I said at all. All EVs have regenerative technology built in and we are all using it on the Lightning. OPD technology is nearly 2 decades old (ie. it is not new). We have a choice to use it or not. Ford has done an excellent job employing regenerative/friction combined braking with both OPD and 2PD giving us a choice on how we use it.

 

[RickKeen]

OPD technology is nearly 2 decades old (ie. it is not new)...
Ford has done an excellent job employing regenerative/friction combined braking with both OPD and 2PD ...

As far as I know, none of the other EV's other than Ford have regen blended from the Brake Pedal. They all only do regen from letting off the Accelerator AND always apply friction brakes from the brake pedal.

The Ford brake pedal regen IS a new way of doing it.

(please correct me if I am wrong about the above)

 

[woodsman]

I believe nearly every EV does it this way. Bolt, rivian, Tesla, they all do it this way.

I highly doubt any evidence manufacture is going to just throw away massive amounts of "free" energy

Well, the very reason I have a Lightning is brakes. I met up with a deer that totaled my expedition. This deer popped up outa the ditch, I swerved to the left and went for the brakes. I have replayed this a thousand times in my head, it seemed like an eternity moving my foot from the gas to the brake pedal, and the slow gush of the booster to full brake pressure. All the while screaming in my head, MOOOOVE, Boom!
The braking on these trucks is incredible, But with one pedal deceleration begins the instant you back off the gas, you are slowing dramatically instantly, wish I would have had that instant, I would have missed that deer completely, But then I wouldn't have my Lightning. Thank you Deer!

 

[WHPHLightning]

What in the world are you talking about? This is the most imprecise and ambiguous statement I have ever seen.

1pd drive and the brake pedal BOTH enact regeneration to slow the vehicle, they both do, there is no difference if you do one or the other.

The point of that detailed explanation was to prove that 1pd changes driving characteristics. One of the commentators stated that they were able to overcome them with a driving style modification.

I was simply highlighting that this driver is now creating a new problem, which is that they are going to spend their time and focus trying to out-navigate the drag effects of the re-gen braking with their style adjustment. And in so doing, will reduce the impact of the re-gen.

So bringing it all back together. 1 pd has pros and cons. Pros are increased mileage and a unique driving experience. Cons the truck experiences drag, is less controlled in the snow, and requires a change in thinking/technique while going in reverse and parallel parking.

And if you want to try threading the needle to have the vehicle "feel" normal while using 1pd, you will need to try to make it happen and you will not maximize the benefit of increased mileage.

 

[Adventureboy]

The parallel parking maybe, simply because of the automatic brake hold.

Agree, this one takes a bit more practice. I've found the brake hold doesn't kick in as long as you have gentle pressure on the accelerator. The space between the applying power and automatic brake hold is larger in reverse to assist with smoother parallel parking. You actually have to press the accelerator further down to move in reverse making it easier to stay in the coast zone - Well thought out by Ford, but it does take a bit of practice.

 

[WHPHLightning]

There is no "out-navigate" the "drag effect". There is no drag effect, 1pd drive is regen, which is slowing the vehicle. Which is exactly the same as if you slow the vehicle without 1pd drive. And truth be told, I DON'T drive in 1pd drive, but even for me the only time spent is remembering to NOT fully release the gas pedal. There is not much to it at all, this isn't heal-toe shifting here.

There is no increased or decreased mileage. 1pd drive or 2pd drive will have the same efficiency. The vehicle speeds up and slows down in exactly the same way.

It is not less controlled in the snow. If you do not know what you are doing and suddenly jump off the accelerator that is not good, just the same as pressing the brakes too hard is not good.

The parallel parking maybe, simply because of the automatic brake hold.

Again, I don't use 1pd drive with any regularity but in no way find it to be "threading the needle" when I do try it, its really quite easy to control. Nor would a slightly less than perfect technique change your mileage, this isn't a gas car engaging the mechanical brakes and then suddenly having to put fuel back into the engine.

I honestly think you might need to read up on the subject we are discussing.

Specifically, the following claims.
1.) There is no drag effect while using 1pd.
2.)The effect is the same as if you were using 2pd [hint: you are conveniently dismissing the free float period before brake application]
3.) There is no increased or decreased mileage, the vehicle speeds up and slows down the same way [All that non-sense about brake coach and energy return is an illusion] [Hint: The vehicle slows down the same way....except it doesn't because in 1pd a computer is tasked with the job, in the other a human.]
4.) It is not less controlled in the snow [Hint: A computer behaves differently than a human being]
5.) The parallel parking and reverse [Hint: There is a subtle but important difference between using a pedal to reverse vs. letting gravity and friction do their thing]

One of the issues I have found with being deeply familiar with these vehicles is that I am able to articulate the pros, as well as the cons of ownership. At the same time, I have found that many owners simply look at the pros and attempt to minimize or ignore the cons, and then wonder why people don't buy the truck or in this case, use the feature.

It's ok that there are drawbacks and that the truck isn't perfect, but don't try to then come back at me without doing the homework and expect me to let it go unnoticed ;D

Have a good one.

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