Farley believes he knows how to beat the Chinese on EVs

[Altivec]

Just an FYI - I build DIY 15.5kWh battery packs for my off-grid-Solar home twice per year. These packs use Lithium-Iron-Phospate prismatic cells that are the re-jects from the higher quality automovtive grade cells (that are x2 or x3 the cost per cell). I build each 15.5 kWh pack for a little over $1,400 USD per each. Factoring in real Automotive Grade cells, a 16kWh battery pack is not worth $30,000 USD.
In Edmonton there is an EV recycling place that sells fully intact, tested EV batteries that have been removed from cars/trucks that have been in accidents. These are used batteries, but they publish the year and model the packs are from and they test and certify the quality of the battery capacity.

If I were in your position I would look for resellers like this who pull the undamaged battery packs from written off EV's and find a low mileage pack to fit your car, then get a price to have it swapped out with the existing pack.

Thank you very much for that info. Oh I know that the battery pack is not worth 30k USD... I am sure a lot of the price from the dealer is so you say forget about that and just buy a new car. I wish I had your expertise to make my own, but I have too many things on my plate to learn that too and knowing my luck, I'll start my house on fire.

I actually live in Edmonton so for you to say there is an EV recycling place right here sounds awesome. I don't know how vehicle specific a used battery needs to be. The problem with my ELR is that it was ahead of its time when nobody wanted a hybrid. Even worse than how EV's are not wanted now. It's basically a unicorn car where they only made 2300 units total in the 3 years it was available. Chances of finding another smashed up ELR in Edmonton that has even less than my 50K miles I think will be slim to none, but you never know. The ELR was based on the Volt system, I just don't know if it shares the same battery exactly. These problems have just come on in the last couple of weeks so I haven't done a ton of research. Even though I love the car, my instinct right now is to get it fixed and then sell it this summer. But you give me some hope with the prices you mentioned that maybe a used battery replacement might give me a little more time with it. I will definitely look at all my options before making my decision.

Thanks again for the great advice.

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[Effonefiddy Lightning]

I don't think that's a the conclusion we can draw based on the article and even Farley's own admissions.

"If anything, Ford was way too aggressive in capacitizing for more expensive vehicles and late to recognize that it needed the Skunkworks," Sam Abuelsamid, vice president of Market Research at Telemetry Insights said.

Skunkworks is the team of engineers that Ford put together in California to develop a low-cost EV platform."


"Farley told Wall Street to expect more news this year around Ford's EV investment strategy and that one thing is certain: Exorbitantly priced EVs will not yield high sales volume or profits, so don't expect to see them come from Ford, he said."

Experts point out Ford's strategic errors in ramping up Lightning production capacity, and Farley himself basically admits that he got it wrong by rolling out a big expensive EV. But good for him in recognizing that fact and for resetting the strategy and expectations. The Lightning was a very expensive experiment for Ford. The lessons learned will be valuable for the future. So if you want to call that a Farley win....ok.

I came to my own opinion from this.

"Even Tesla was early in recognizing the need to take cost out of its EVs, and while affordability remains challenging with Teslas, they have found a path to profitability, something few automakers globally have achieved with EVs," Abuelsamid said.

I think there's something to be said about a company that continues to make every model they've ever put into production. Just my opinion.

 

[MotoGary]

I came to my own opinion from this.

"Even Tesla was early in recognizing the need to take cost out of its EVs, and while affordability remains challenging with Teslas, they have found a path to profitability, something few automakers globally have achieved with EVs," Abuelsamid said.

I think there's something to be said about a company that continues to make every model they've ever put into production. Just my opinion.

Apparently you're talking about Musk. I was talking about Farley.

 

[TMND]

I was just thinking to myself that Jim looks a lot like Chris Farley and sure as shit they were cousins ?

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

That EV recycle place gets EV packs from all over Canada - I only know about it because a car I was 'watching' in Dryden Ontario had the EV battery shipped to Edmonton for testing and re-sale (meaning I missed out on getting it !) The wrecker here told me there are only two or three depots in the whole Country. not sure if that is true or not. but knowing our regulations, it just might be.
Anyway - do the search and see. Ya just never know, maybe your car used an existing battery pack - since it would be far less expensive than designing a custom pack for only 2300 cars. These things are pretty modular.

There is also an EV battery testing and recycle place in PQ {Ingenext.ca}
and one in Vancouver.

 

[JRT]

The change is predictable. They are too expensive and do not substitute well. I have a ski trip and if I took the lighting it would add 2+ hours to a 9 hr trip and the destination is 65miles from any fast charger and no significant destination chargers. If it was me alone, I'd probably do it, but with a family, nope, I'm renting a Camry.

 

[hoovertac]

This is a pretty good article about what direction Ford is taking in it's future EV development.



https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2025/02/21/ford-jim-farely-evs-china/78980633007/

Sad. I really like my platinum Lightning. EV.s with range extenders may address various anxieties but don’t they just end up undermining the advantages of owning an EV?

 

[davehu]

industry analyst: " Ford will almost certainly let the current Lightning fade away when it comes to the end of its product cycle,” McElroy said. “Though it's a good truck, it never sold very well, mainly because it couldn't carry heavy loads or tow for long distances. It will probably be replaced by an electric truck with a range-extender gasoline engine. And we'll see if Ford decides to use the Lightning name on that.”

I agree. Love my Lightning and not sorry for my purchase. It will last me 10 years plus and likely be the last vehicle I'll ever own.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

The change is predictable. They are too expensive and do not substitute well. I have a ski trip and if I took the lighting it would add 2+ hours to a 9 hr trip and the destination is 65miles from any fast charger and no significant destination chargers. If it was me alone, I'd probably do it, but with a family, nope, I'm renting a Camry.

Between my wife and I we have three vehicles, one is ICE and we mostly loan it out to visiting family while they are here, or use it for a long trip where we don't know if chargers will be available - or we don't want to wait for charging. With the cost of hwy fast chargers nearly matching gasoline cost per mile, it makes sense to keep the EV's for use where we can home charge overnight - for pennies per kWh.
The problem isn't with the EV's - it is with the roll out of more chargers, and the cost of Fast charging being so high (compared with the actual cost of electricity).

Most of our annual travel is near home, so EV makes great sense, costing 5% of what I used to spend on gasoline per year.
It will come with time, meanwhile I like having the option to just use the ICE if that makes the best sense in a situation.

 

[Newton]

All of this discussion about what an EV truck can do or not do overlooks the fact that the Lightning is a very mediocre attempt at an EV. They really did nothing to make it more efficient (such as a mechanism to disconnect the AWD when not needed or using a different type of motor) or to charge faster. Mine does not even have a heat pump, which even my e-Golf has! It was a great attempt at hitting the market first and I think it worked well, but you can’t really draw conclusions about what a modern EV truck can do from their experience. My E-Golf has a 120 mile range and can only be fast charged once a day at a low speed. Oh no, EV sedans can’t possibly work!

In contrast my EV6 charges in about 10 minutes in real life and does about 3.5-4.0 mi/kWh. I know it is not a truck but then you look at the Silverado and wonder why Ford can’t do that. Batteries are getting much less expensive as more lithium producers come online.

It annoys me a bit that the stuff that the Lightning “can’t do” has a lot of overlap with stuff that an F-150 shouldn’t do. The F-150 is marketed as a “tow your 30 foot airstream” truck but see what reaction you get if you pull into an RV lot with one. If you do serious towing, the F-150 is exactly the wrong truck. Putting a range extender on a Lightning isn’t going to turn it into an F-350 with a gooseneck.

 

[NW Ontario Ford Lightning]

It annoys me a bit that the stuff that the Lightning “can’t do” has a lot of overlap with stuff that an F-150 shouldn’t do. The F-150 is marketed as a “tow your 30 foot airstream” truck but see what reaction you get if you pull into an RV lot with one. If you do serious towing, the F-150 is exactly the wrong truck. Putting a range extender on a Lightning isn’t going to turn it into an F-350 with a gooseneck.

I did a search: this is what it says about pick up truck owners:
In the United States, pickup trucks are a major source of revenue for car manufacturers, and they account for a significant portion of total vehicle sales. However, most pickup truck owners don't use their trucks for work or hauling.

I agree, for towing, a 3/4ton or 1-ton is the truck of choice. I love my Lightning but I bought it for use near the home-base for home charging overnight (at 2.9Cents per kWh) not for long distance towing and Fast charging (at 42 cents per kWh). But like a lot of folks, I am sure I am not alone in having both EV and ICE vechicles at home, and picking the right one for the task at hand.

 

[Newton]

We got rid of most of our gas vehicles, we have one garage princess (that *I* wouldn’t mind selling) and a single cab long bed beater pickup for hauling rocks and garbage. It would be electric if something like that existed and cost less than $15,000. Driving gas is almost painful, certainly when I start up the garage princess I hear about fumes in the house.

For longer range I use the EV6, although it turns out that the really long trips are in the Lightning because it works fine for a relaxed trip. There is almost no difference on a long trip between driving the EV6 and the Audi Q5 that we used to have. Yes, you could refill the Audi much faster but the total time at the ‘station’ tends to be the same when all is done. We charge instead of a rest stop. If EV chargers were more crowded that might not hold, but Kia is releasing their Tesla adapter soon.

That I why I say that the Lightning is a mediocre EV (although a great truck). On long trips I feel just a little that I am playing the EV game that I used to play with the E-Golf, in the EV6 the EVness is just not a factor.

 

[Pro23-dead-at-960-miles]

The way forward is with better batteries like BYD, bringing ICE back is so dumb going backwards.

 

[NCevGuyF150]

This is a pretty good article about what direction Ford is taking in it's future EV development.



https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2025/02/21/ford-jim-farely-evs-china/78980633007/

I truly believe that the lightning didn’t sell well, because, they originally said it would be $39,000 starting price. I don’t think any new truck has ever sold for that amount. Instead, it was released during Covid when dealers were tacking on 10 grand. People were paying over $100,000 for a truck. Historically pick up trucks were an economical way for a family to have a second vehicle which was utilitarian. A husband could drive to work and leave the sedan for his wife and kids.
It was the price that led to poor sales. People can’t afford 15 and $1600 a month on a vehicle.

 

[VTbuckeye]

so, to achieve that it needs to be electronically fuel injected.
here comes all the digital controls and support. Sounds expensive.
And there‘s still the muffler and exhaust pipe thing and the gas tank thing and the EPA thing. How about a radiator and coolant for cooling.
Magically gonna stuff all that where?

Put it in the frunk? Then what do we have ? lol

An F150 power boost with a bigger battery and a smaller engine.
Oops, PHEV again nobody wants.

And the frunk was everyone’s favorite part of the Lightning !!!

As a former Volt owner I agree. Also should add...Why have electric heat when we have this gas fired heater. And then half of the country spends months with an EV that insists on running its ICE in short cycles while never getting really warm. And the smaller battery works harder and cycles more than a larger battery. I just got out of our last phev and we now have a 3 EV house.

ICE makes sense for some uses. We don't frequently do those things and can deal with the compromises of EVs. When we had phev we wanted the engine to run as little possible (which really isn't good for the engine), unless we really needed it. Give us enough battery and enough charging and we never need the ice.

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